Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience, Senator McKenzie. In her train-wreck interview with the Today show, the minister was asked five times what the threshold was for declaring a national emergency after the floods. Five times she was unable to answer. Can the minister now explain the threshold for declaring a national emergency?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) | Link to this | Hansard source

As Senator Watt rightly highlights, on 11 March, the Governor-General enacted the National Emergency (2022 New South Wales Floods) Declaration. The Prime Minister formally recommended a national emergency declaration following advice from the Director-General of Emergency Management Australia, Joe Buffone, who on 10 March also briefed Senator Watt as part of my own efforts to make sure we're as bipartisan as possible in dealing with this crisis. This advice was provided in consultation with a range of Commonwealth agencies, based on the best possible information available at that point in time.

The Prime Minister must be satisfied that the scale and impact of the floods meet the legal threshold to declare a national emergency. The making of a national emergency declaration enlivens a range of powers to make it easier for affected communities to access Commonwealth assistance, including empowering ministers to suspend, vary or substitute red-tape requirements—for example, to make it easy for affected individuals to supply identification when they may have to apply for certain disaster relief funding. It allows the Prime Minister to access information from Commonwealth entities or stockpiles—

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, resume your seat. Senator Watt, on a point of order?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) | Link to this | Hansard source

On relevance, Mr President. The minister referred to a threshold in her answer, but my question was what the threshold was. Could we get an answer on that, please?

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

You've reminded the minister of the question, Senator Watt. I am listening and, so far, I believe the minister has been relevant to the question.

Honourable senators interjecting—

I will also point out, seeing as those opposite are interjecting in my ruling, that the question began with a highly political preamble. A narrowly framed question cannot start with a highly political preamble—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order!

The P:

Order! Senator Watt, you are wasting the Senate's time now. Senator McKenzie, you have the call for 38 seconds.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) | Link to this | Hansard source

The Prime Minister has to be satisfied, as I said, that the scale and impact of the floods meet that threshold to declare it. Now, with this particular event, there was not one single event within the natural disaster as it occurred; rather, it was the cumulative effect of the weather pattern as it rolled from Gympie right down the east coast, dumping—as the Bureau of Meteorology has said—a one-in-500-year-event catastrophe on Lismore. And, based on the cumulative impact of that event over time, the Prime Minister— (Time expired)

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Watt, a supplementary question?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) | Link to this | Hansard source

It's probably best that I just re-ask: does the minister know what the threshold is that her department uses when advising to declare a national emergency? What is the threshold?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said, the Prime Minister himself must be satisfied that the event actually meets the threshold—

Hon. Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) | Link to this | Hansard source

He bases that on a range of data and advice. And, as I outlined—

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Watt, on a point of order?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order on relevance: what is the threshold?

Honourable senators interjecting—

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator McKenzie on the point of order?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry, I didn't think we were able to restate questions in points of order, so I was wondering whether that was the second supplementary, the first supplementary or, indeed, just restating the first question?

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, that is a debating point. Senator Wong, on the point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, which is a point of order around direct relevance. In the first supplementary question there was no political preamble. It was a very clear question to this minister about what the threshold is. Mr President, I would ask you to remind this minister of the question.

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

I was listening to the minister's answer and I believe she was being relevant, so I am not going to remind her of the question. You have reminded her of the question, Senator Wong. I do not believe there was anything in the minister's answer so far that was not relevant to the question—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order! Minister you have the call for 44 seconds.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) | Link to this | Hansard source

The Australian Disaster Preparedness Framework defines a severe and catastrophic disaster as an event that:

… is beyond our current arrangements, thinking, experience and imagination (… has overwhelmed our technical, non-technical and social systems and resources, and has degraded or disabled governance structures and strategic and operational decision-making functions).

So, in developing the advice to consider a declaration, the agencies have provided information on the following criteria—listen up—'historical analysis and recurrence; the concurrence and compounding effects and scale of the events'—as I outlined in my first answer—'demographics; weather impacts'— (Time expired)

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Watt, a second supplementary question?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) | Link to this | Hansard source

When asked why it took the Prime Minister so long to declare a national emergency following the recent floods, this minister replied that the Prime Minister must consult with state and territory premiers. But the relevant legislation clearly states the Prime Minister does not need to consult premiers if 'it is not practicable to do so'. Why did the minister mislead flood victims when trying to explain the Prime Minister's delay in declaring a national emergency?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) | Link to this | Hansard source

Given Senator Watt's issue around the threshold, I can answer both if I finish on the thresholds, because there are quite a lot of thresholds: the weather impacts; the economic impacts; the flood extent, as I said, going down the east coast; vulnerability of disadvantaged populations' information; essential services and impact duration.

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister—

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) | Link to this | Hansard source

Now, Mr President, going to Senator Watt's substantive—

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister! On a point of order, Senator Watt?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order, Mr President: I asked two questions asking for the thresholds, and now I've asked a different question, and I'm getting an answer to that question!

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Watt—

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) | Link to this | Hansard source

Do I need to restate this question?

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

I don't believe you do. I think the minister is very well aware of the question. I heard the minister getting to the question. Minister, you have the call; 46 seconds remain.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) | Link to this | Hansard source

I am seeking to be helpful. The fact of the matter is that the Prime Minister was not unable to consult with Premier Perrottet and Premier Palaszczuk, because he was actually able to consult with both of them. He doesn't need them both to agree to declare a national emergency, but he does need to have the conversation and then he can choose to declare it or not, unilaterally, or not. So the Prime Minister contacted both Premier Palaszczuk and Premier Perrottet to actually consult them—the first time we've ever actually used this particular emergency power.

Slade Brockman (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Cash.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask that further questions be now placed on notice.