Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development, Senator McKenzie. The Minerals Council of Australia has admitted that mine workers who are employed as casuals by labour hire companies are paid, on average, 24 per cent less then permanent employees of the mine operator. Does the Deputy Prime Minister support labour hire being used to undermine the pay of mine workers in regional Australia?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On behalf of the Deputy Prime Minister, I will say that what we do support is ongoing investment in a sustainable, responsible and economically viable minerals industry so that workers in the resources industry, not just across Central Queensland but also right across your own home state of New South Wales, can have sustainable, rewarding careers in an industry that underpins not just local economies in regional Australia but indeed—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres, a point of order?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On relevance: it's very clear that the minister is not going remotely go close to answering the question, which was—if I can remind you—about whether the Deputy Prime Minister supports labour hire being used to undermine the pay of mine workers in regional Australia.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres, I think we do need to acknowledge that the minister had only just started her answer. You've brought her back to your question.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I didn't forget your question. I was just reiterating the National Party's and the Liberal Party's commitment to a sustainable resources sector to ensure that these workers are absolutely being employed. And I'm just wondering whether, post next election—if you're planning to be in alliance and coalition with the Greens—you will actually hold the same views and whether the workers you purport to represent and stand up for in this place will actually be looking to you and asking: 'Why didn't you stand up for us? Why didn't you back a coal industry? Why didn't you back a gas industry?' These guys want to shut everything down. If it has the word 'fossil' in it—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are you rising on a point of order, Senator Ayres?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am. I know that the minister wants to stick to the partisan talking points—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What is the point of order?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The point of order is on relevance. She is not in the same galaxy as the question.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, I will bring you back to the question. It was a reasonably narrowly framed question. I believe you were going towards the question, but I will bring you back to the question. Minister, you have the call. You have 38 seconds remaining.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. The government believes in a workplace relations system that promotes fair, safe, harmonious and productive workplaces, that encourages employers and employees to work together—not a system that pits them against each other. When it comes to labour hire, specifically, which is a proportion of all employees, it has been stable at less than two per cent over the last decade. Of the nearly 13 million employed Australians, fewer than 115,000 were employees paid by labour hire firms. That is only 1.1 per cent of all employees. The record high of 1.5 per cent was recorded under a previous Labor government in both 2008— (Time expired)

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres, a supplementary question?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Deputy Prime Minister Joyce refused to answer a question about the impact of same job, same pay in regional Australia last week, handballing it to Minister Fletcher, who claimed: 'This so-called same job, same pay issue is essentially a made-up issue.' Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree with Mr Fletcher that same job, same pay is 'a made-up issue'?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I assume that Senator Ayres is referring to his bill, and what I'm wanting to put on the table is what the government's view is around labour hire companies. My advice is that almost all labour hire companies use enterprise agreements that are signed off and by the CFMMEU. We support as a government an industrial relations system. The government doesn't set the wages; that's a negotiated outcome between workers.

H onourable senator interjecting—

Yes, let's remember who set up the Fair Work system that we're operating under!

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, on a point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, on direct relevance. We are putting a direct quote to the minister and asking if the Deputy Prime Minister agrees with Mr Fletcher that same job, same pay is a 'made-up issue'.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I've allowed you to restate the question to the minister. Minister, you have the call.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I'm going to, in answering the question, is that our government supports an industrial relations system which relates to jobs, which relates to wages, who gets paid for what, when and where. I've been directly relevant to the question, in both my first answer and in my second. In terms of helping our nation recover from COVID-19— (Time expired)

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres, a second supplementary question?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

BHP, the largest miner in Australia, told the Senate Job Security Committee that more than half of its workers at mine sites, nationwide, are employed by labour hire or other contractors. Does the Deputy Prime Minister believe that two mine workers in regional Australia doing exactly the same job should get the same pay?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am sure that the Deputy Prime Minister wants businesses in this country to operate legally and under the law. We want to make sure that we have rewarding, sustainable careers not just in the mining industry, Senator Ayres, but right across the economy in regional Australia, and for people, local workers, to be paid correctly and fairly for the work that they do.

That is why, under your Fair Work system, we've done the changes that we have been able to get through in this particular period of government. But we want to make sure that employees are protected, that they are having rewarding careers.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Ayres, on a point of order?

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's not remotely relevant. Each of these questions is constructed, as you indicated earlier, quite narrowly. The question was: 'Does the Deputy Prime Minister believe that two mine workers, working side by side, doing the same job should get the same pay?' and she hasn't come close to beginning answering that question.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres, you have restated a part of the question. Senator McKenzie, I believe, was being relevant to the question. I will return to Senator McKenzie.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I stated in my previous answer, the enterprise agreements negotiated in the coalmining industry are signed off by the CFMEU, so if you have an issue with how people are being paid in that area then maybe you need to go see your mates. Your private member's bill is actually discouraging employment right across Australia.