Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. In his announcement on 2 July, during the delta outbreak in Sydney, Mr Morrison declared that in phase b 'lockdowns would only occur in extreme circumstances'. Given Mr Morrison's announcement last Friday, can the minister confirm this statement is no longer true?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Following the release of the Doherty Institute modelling yesterday, all senators and all Australians have the opportunity to see both the content of that modelling and the way in which the modelling outlines the impact of different vaccination levels on expected rates of transmission, on expected rates of contraction of COVID-19 and on the seriousness of the consequences of that and how that shifts at different levels of vaccination across the population. It also outlines different phases of restrictions that could be applied at those different rates.

It is correct that, in terms of the different phases of moving through, variations in the types of restrictions that may be necessary at different levels were made to make sure that we could have an appropriately staged approach at the different levels of vaccination through the modelling. This is entirely consistent with an approach of seeking to follow scientific and medical advice in the handling of the pandemic. What the government has done in terms of seeking to chart a pathway of reopening is listened to that scientific and medical advice. We are one of the few countries in the world to have had the opportunity to take that advice and adapt policy along the way according to that advice and information—some of the best practice in the world. We are one of the few countries in the world to have had that opportunity to do so. That is because, as a country, notwithstanding the many difficulties and uncertainties in responding to a global pandemic, we have been in a position where lives have been saved, where we have been able to act in accordance with advice and where we are able to make sure that we get it right before we move to those next stages.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher, a supplementary question?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In his announcement on 2 July, in the midst of a delta outbreak, Mr Morrison declared that in phase C there would be 'no lockdowns'. Can the minister confirm that this is not true and that in phase C Australians will, in fact, be subjected to more lockdowns in a whole range of circumstances?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I refer the senator to the answer I just gave and to the answer that Senator Colbeck gave previously. The answer I just gave outlined very clearly the fact that the government outlined the potential stages for reopening. The government asked the Doherty Institute to undertake modelling against those sorts of processes. In the process of undertaking that modelling it became apparent that there needed to be differences in those stages to be able to work successfully through reopening. The government fully expects that. That's why the government was asking for expert advice. It's why we have done so. As Senator Colbeck said before, the advice as published makes clear that in the third phase limited targeted lockdowns may be necessary in certain extreme circumstances. That is there in that public advice. (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher,a supplementary question?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Last year Mr Morrison and his ministers consistently criticised the Victorian lockdown. This year he has gone from urging Victoria to lift restrictions and commending New South Wales for not going into full lockdown in June to declaring in July that 'lockdowns are absolutely necessary and there's no other way through'. How can Australians possibly believe a word Mr Morrison says?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sometimes when I stand here and look opposite I'm not sure whether I'm seeing a whole world of Nostradamuses across from me or people who just think that they have the wonderful benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left, Senator Wong.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A very obvious point that was missing from Senator Gallagher's question was any recognition of the reality of the existence of the delta variant. A 100 per cent increase in the transmissibility of COVID-19 is a factor in relation to the delta variant. Having changed the results in a 100 per cent increase—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I can barely hear Senator Birmingham.

An opposition senator interjecting—

He does have a loud voice. Senator Gallagher, on a point of order?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The leader of the government is misleading—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That's not a point of order.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I did mention the delta outbreak. It's misleading to say—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That's not a point of order, Senator Gallagher.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Order! There's an opportunity to debate answers after question time. We have senators operating remotely. I ask again for the courtesy of the Senate to allow them to hear it, because if I can't, they can't.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The fact is the circumstances we face now are quite different to the circumstances we faced as a country 12 months ago. At the time of the Victorian lockdown last year—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left. Senator Pratt and Senator Watt, your leader is on her feet. Senator Wong, a point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My point of order is on direct relevance. I would point out that this question does relate to comments made when the delta variant was already in place in Sydney.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Senator Wong interjecting—

Senator Wong, please. It was a very broadly worded question. The minister is entirely in order in answering it in these terms. I am going to ask for silence. I do not want to have to stand or interrupt question time further.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The simple point is that, when the facts and the evidence change, we have been willing to change with the facts and the changes in evidence, and those opposite would be the first to criticise us if we didn't.