Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Through you, Chair, to the minister: I flagged this issue in my second reading contribution. What is the government doing to ensure that the additional costs that providers may incur due to these changes, as providers have articulated they may, aren't passed on to consumers?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

One of the things that we have done as a part of previous reforms is the requirement for all providers to publicly list their fees and charges. I acknowledge the comments that you made in your contribution in your second reading speech with respect to costs. I think it might have also been reflected by some other colleagues. It is an issue of concern for us. We are currently considering our options with respect to those elements, particularly with respect to our policy reform off the back of the royal commission report, which, as I noted a moment ago, will be reporting on 26th of this month, so very close now. It is a concern to us. We are monitoring all of those things closely. We'll be keeping an eye on it through the public reporting process as they're required to do on the My Aged Care website.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Through you, Chair: thanks, Minister. It's good if they do publish them, but what are you going to do if they go up? What undertaking are you giving to older Australians that, if providers do do that, you're going to do something about it to ensure those charges aren't passed on?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

At this point in time there are no price controls with respect to the delivery of home-care services. The issue of cost, as I've indicated, is one that we're concerned about. We're watching it very closely. I'd be very disappointed if providers were to pass on costs. You would be aware, through the report that the Aged Care Financing Authority provided to us, the view is that the sector should be able to manage this process. We are concerned about some smaller providers, particularly in regional areas, that might have additional costs in relation to this. We have a limited qualification program in place to assist those providers through that. We don't want to see loss of services as a result of this review. There is discussion with respect to the technology that might be required to be taken up. To be frank, my view is that the take-up of technology would (a) be a good thing (b) provide some efficiencies for providers and (c) facilitate better reporting both to us and to consumers. We will be using this information in the interests of consumers, because, as I said, we are clearly concerned about that.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You've obviously foreseen one of my questions. I'll come back to some of the issues you've just touched on. Have you sought an assurance from providers that they will not pass on the costs?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We've had a number of conversations with providers. As I've said, there is no provision for us to prevent them from passing on costs. They can take this conversation as a clear message from me that I don't expect that there should be costs passed on to consumers, and we will be monitoring that very closely. As I said, the process that we'll go through off the back of the royal commission report, which will do a number of things that's been talked about during this debate, will increase the capacity of the system, but we're also looking to reform the delivery of home-care services. The actions and the way that the providers conduct themselves as part of this process will certainly inform what we're looking to do, including how we manage the issue of fees and charges providers charge to consumers. As I've said to you a couple of times now, this is a significant area of concern for the government.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have heard you say this is a significant area of concern, and, as I articulated in my second reading contribution, aged-care recipients and COTA have indicated that they are concerned about the possibility of passing on costs, so there's general concern about this issue. However, it appears to me from your answer that you haven't sought assurances from providers that they won't increase the costs. Have any providers given you an assurance that they won't increase costs?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no mechanism for us to control or manage costs within the Aged Care Act at the moment. We have sent a clear message to providers that we don't expect that this should result in an increase in costs. For those that are at risk, we have a process in place to support them through that process. I'm sending a very clear message through this debate right now. I don't expect that there should be an increase in costs. The providers can hear that message from me now. To respond specifically to your question, nobody has provided me with that assurance directly, but it is a point of discussion that's obviously been part of the debate. That's one of the reasons that we asked the Aged Care Financing Authority to get a good sense of what the potential impact of this measure might be with respect to the sector, because we wanted to understand it as well as possible. This is a very important move in the context of our reform of the delivery of care at home.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That's why the chamber has indicated its support, because we recognise it is an important move. We agree. Would you be prepared to name and shame providers that put up costs directly related to this particular measure?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That's certainly something I'm prepared to consider.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, in your answer to one of my questions, you started to touch on the issue that I want to go to briefly next, which regards providers in thin markets that may fall over in the transition phase due to these changes. What other things do you have in mind to assist those providers, particularly in the thin markets? Is it the existing measures that you have articulated, or are there other things that you will undertake to ensure that providers in those thin markets—where they are likely to be the only provider—are not going to fall over or that there's something to put in their place?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said, we have had a good look at the sector. I think we have a relatively good handle on the areas where there may be concern, and we have made provision for a limited application grants program to be directed at those providers who we think may need some assistance to manage the transition to payment in arrears. We think that we have an appropriate level of coverage to support those providers who may be at risk. We clearly don't want to see services ceased as a result of this measure.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Given some of the issues we have seen with Services Australia in the past, are you confident that Services Australia has the capacity and the time to implement these changes in order to ensure a smooth transition?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

All of our conversations and the timing that we have put in place to implement these changes would indicate that that capacity does exist.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's obviously one that we will be watching closely through estimates. Regarding aged-care packages, the 2020-21 budget allocated 20 per cent of the new packages to level 1. Why is the government continuing to announce level 1 home-care packages, and why has recent funding been done on a basis of quarter-quarter-quarter to the various packages? Why are you continuing to do that, given that people assessed as needing level 1 packages make up about three per cent of those that are currently waiting for a package?

Why is that occurring, rather than putting more resources into, particularly, level 3 and level 4? I acknowledge that some more have gone in, but it's clearly not enough to meet demand.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The investment that we're making in the package levels is based on the advice to support a reduction in waiting times and waiting lists. That's the objective we have. We acknowledge that there's more work to be done; I think I've done that a number of times in the chamber and also publicly. Clearly, that will be the subject of some of the recommendations of the royal commission. The work that we're doing is to provide assistance to senior Australians, to support them getting assistance as soon as possible. We're looking to facilitate a reduction in waiting times and waiting lists.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, is the government prepared to reallocate some of the funding that's been allocated to other levels in order to meet the needs for levels 3 and 4, if needed?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As we continue to grow the capacity of the system, some of that will create a reallocation between package levels.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am sure we will continue to pursue that issue in estimates as well. Can I move to the issue that I raised during my second reading contribution, of protected information. I'm sure you're aware of the issue that I raised in terms of the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission's occasional finding on section 86-9 of the Aged Care Act, which is about information on aged-care services that the secretary may make publicly available—that it refers to protected information. I am sure you heard the comments I made about people having deep concerns about that provision being used in order to not provide information. What is the government doing to ensure that information listed under section 86-9 of the Aged Care Act is available to members of the public who request it?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We might have to have another conversation about this, but I will give you the information that I have and I'm happy to have some further discussion with you in a briefing with respect to this. I will give you some information around government funded residential aged-care homes' obligations and responsibilities around record management. Under the Aged Care Act 1997 approved providers of aged care have the ability to give personal information to a person who has the power to require the production of documents or the answering of questions, such as a person who has an enduring power of attorney over the resident's care. If a person has the appropriate legal authority, they should be able to access their relative's records.

Another point that I would make in respect of this is that quite often you will have circumstances where family members other than the particular person may be seeking information. A provider may be restricted in providing information in that context. Unfortunately, sometimes complex situations within an aged-care facility then get entangled with complex family circumstances, and people get frustrated that they can't find information in relation to their direct family member's care and circumstances. It is an issue. It's an issue that came to light a couple of times during the last 12 months, where some family members weren't aware of the circumstances in relation to their direct family member but other family members were very aware of the circumstances. I understand that that becomes quite problematic from a number of perspectives.

In the context of information and public information with respect to delivery of aged-care services, it is certainly an issue that we are quite cognisant of. The royal commission has talked about a rating system for the sector, both in the context of home care and residential care, and better financial reporting. They are certainly matters that we are giving very, very close consideration to, to provide more information to users of both residential aged care and home care so that they can have better information to make decisions with respect to the care that's being provided and that they might receive, should they choose one of those options. I would be very confident that that will be one of the outcomes of the reforms that will come out of the back of the royal commission.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. I do appreciate the point that you made about potentially complex family issues as well. However, having said that, there are circumstances where, in effect, authorised people are being denied so-called protected information. I'm pleased to hear that there'll be changes coming out of the royal commission.

You'll be pleased to learn that my final question—depending on the answer; I will just let you know that—is: are you then proposing that that will be part of a new Aged Care Act?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The possibility, or the option, of a new Aged Care Act, again, is one of the draft recommendations from counsel assisting the royal commissioners. The royal commission reports on 26 February and we will very closely and carefully consider the option of a new Aged Care Act. I think I'm on the public record as saying that previously, so I'm happy to repeat that that will be part of our consideration subsequent to the royal commission's report.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry, I appreciate the answer you just gave, but if in the circumstances that there is a new Aged Care Act, would this issue be addressed in that act?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In the circumstances of a new act, or even modifications to the existing act, this is clearly an issue that we're considering.

Bill agreed to.

Bill reported without amendments; report adopted.