Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to Senator Ruston, the Minister for Families and Social Services. In an article in Tuesday's Sydney Morning Herald, Toby Hall, Chief Executive of St Vincent's Health Australia, wrote, of the government's proposal to drug test income support recipients:

There is not one shred of evidence—here or overseas—that shows compulsory drug testing works to help someone on a path to beating their drug problem in the long term.

He went on:

… this policy would be counter-productive because it stigmatises people. We know stigmatisation is one of the biggest barriers to people asking for help. Any increase in stigma and anxiety for people with substance-use disorders will exacerbate their addiction rather than help them.

Despite unanimous opposition from the health and addiction sector, the government once again has introduced legislation to drug-test income support recipients. Minister, what makes the government think they know better than the experts; and why in Australia would it be any different from overseas failed experiences of drug testing?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Siewert for her question, and acknowledge her ongoing and enduring interest in speaking on behalf of more vulnerable Australians.

I say right from the outset here that the Morrison government is absolutely committed to supporting people into a position where they're job ready, and part of that process is being able to identify the barriers that they face in being able to get a job. One of the more significant barriers, we know, that people who are unemployed face in being able to get themselves into a job is drug addiction or substance abuse. We know from statistics that somebody who is unemployed is more than three times more likely to have an addiction to ice. We know that people who are unemployed are more likely to smoke cannabis than people who are employed. But what we're seeking to do here by this trial, should the legislation be successful in passing this place, is to identify people who have a drug or substance abuse problem. If they fail on the first count to pass a drug test, we would seek to restrict or quarantine an amount of their payment so that they could only access—

Scott Ryan (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Siewert, on a point of order?

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) | Link to this | Hansard source

While I appreciate the information the minister's providing, I have heard it before. I asked a very specific question: what makes the government think that they know more than the experts who are saying this doesn't work?

Scott Ryan (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Siewert, you restated the question at the end of a longer question that had a substantial preamble and various facts included. The minister is being directly relevant if she speaks to those as well. I cannot instruct a minister how to answer the question. I call the minister to continue.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) | Link to this | Hansard source

What I would stress here is that this is a trial. The reason we have trials is so that we can gather a body of evidence so that we can make more-informed decisions. This government is absolutely committed to finding new and innovative ways by which we can assist people who are unemployed to break down their barriers to getting into work. This particular trial is exactly that; it is a trial, and it is intended for us to be able to gather that body of evidence so that we can put new programs in place that are innovative and responsive to the conditions and the barriers that individuals find in getting into work. (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Siewert, a supplementary question?

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) | Link to this | Hansard source

A Monash University study on the health status of Newstart recipients that was released earlier this week shows that nearly half of Newstart recipients report having mental or behavioural problems. How does drug testing help people with mental health issues when it is linked to increased stigma?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Siewert for her follow-up question. As I said in my response to the primary question, the absolute core reason and motivation behind the Morrison government's seeking to ask this place to give us the mandate to go out and undertake a very limited amount of drug testing on new people who are coming onto Newstart is so that we can identify whether this drug addiction or substance abuse is actually the barrier that is preventing them from getting into work. If it turns out that they do have a substance issue, we will then have the opportunity to provide them with the kinds of support services, facilities and treatments that will enable them to address their drug or substance abuse issue. This is about helping Australians, because we know that one of the most important barriers that we can break down for people who are looking for work is drug addiction. (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Siewert, a final supplementary question?

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) | Link to this | Hansard source

Isn't this false debate around drug testing income-support recipients really just about diverting attention away from the fact that the Newstart allowance needs to be raised?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much for the question, Senator Siewert. This is not new. The concept of drug testing for Newstart recipients to identify whether this is a barrier to their employment has been around for some time. I think it was first introduced into this place nearly three years ago, and it has subsequently been introduced again. So we have already had quite a long period of time in which this government has had this issue on the table as one of its responses, in a suite of measures that we want to put in place to assist Australians who find themselves without a job, to break down those barriers so that they can get into a job. So, Senator Siewert, I can absolutely, categorically state to you that the reason, the motivation, for the Morrison government to seek to convince this place of the benefits and the values of this trial is to be able to assist people who find themselves with a barrier to work caused by drug addiction to get over that barrier so that they can get a job. (Time expired)