Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister to the Leader (Tasmania)) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Indigenous Affairs (Senator Scullion) to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today relating to aged care funding.

What an extraordinary question time when a minister can't even confirm the figures that the government itself has released. Today we witnessed a minister who could not even confirm the figures given out by the government's own department relating to 108,000 older Australian whose are awaiting home care packages. We also saw the budget document which confirms that Treasurer Morrison cut half a billion dollars from the aged-care sector, and then, following on from that, he cut $1.2 billion out of the aged-care sector. And they are wondering why we need to have a royal commission! We have a minister who has 14 reports sitting on his desk, gathering dust, all pointing to the crisis that has been experienced in the aged-care sector over the last five years. What we've also seen today is a government trying to run 100 miles away from the responsibility it has to show leadership in the aged-care sector.

It is not just the Labor opposition calling the government out for their lack of attention and lack of capacity to run this department; it is the sector themselves. On Friday I was with Bill Shorten, the Leader of the Opposition, and Julie Collins, the shadow minister for ageing. We had a roundtable in Melbourne that was made up of consumer groups, providers to the aged care sector, people that have developed public policy in this area. They all acknowledged that this government has failed—failed older Australians, failed to deliver on the Living Longer Living Better reforms that the last Labor government set in place.

We've had three ministers over the last four years, and not one of those ministers has had any real interest in the aged care sector. If Mr Abbott and Mr Turnbull and Mr Morrison had any concern at all for older Australians, they would have a minister for ageing in the cabinet. A minister who is in the outer ministry does not have the same influence over a government as one that sits around that cabinet table. We have an ageing population in this country and a rise in dementia, and what we've seen from this government is a fail. On 26 June 2014 the then minister, Senator Fifield, came into this chamber and, without any consultation whatsoever with the sector or within any of the organisations that deliver the services, cut the dementia supplement by $110 million. That was an enormous blow, and that was the beginning of this spiralling out of control of the lack of funding in the aged care sector.

The sector has spoken to the government. We've been out around this country—I have, over the last five years—visiting aged care centres, talking to providers, talking to COTA, and the same issue has been raised with us over and over again. This government has been hell-bent on cutting money out of this sector. We should be investing. They come in here and deny that, out of their own budget papers, the then Treasurer, now Prime Minister, who is crying crocodile tears for older Australians, cut $1.2 billion. And they expect that the providers can provide the same care and support. We know that there's a huge hole in the supply of aged care workers in this country. We know that they've run down and cut funding from the TAFE system, which has the responsibility for training aged care workers. We know that there is so much competition for disability workers that we need to invest to have better training. We need to have more workers. We have heard the calls from the nursing federation wanting more nurses in this sector. We need to include the GPs. We need more GPs providing health care to older Australians. And what have we seen in question time? A failed attempt, just like this government has failed to protect and look after the most vulnerable people in our community. They come in here and talk about older Australians building this country. Each and every one of them should be ashamed of themselves. This Prime Minister can cry crocodile tears, but he was the Treasurer who cut the funding. He was the one who started with almost $2 billion in funding cuts. (Time expired)

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I really do not know why we bother with question time. Questions are asked of ministers, factual answers are given, and then the questioner completely ignores the answer, makes up some other facts that might suit their political approach, but simply doesn't want to know the truth. I ask the previous speaker, was she one of those that went around the nursing homes before the last election telling people that Medicare was going to be privatised? I ask any of the Labor speakers who might participate in this debate next to answer that question. Were they among those who went around telling people in nursing homes and hospitals that Medicare was going to be privatised? As we all know, that was then, was always and is now the biggest lie going. It's part of the Labor approach these days. Labor have abandoned any real debate on policy issues. All they do is get some of the clever people in the back room to pick a subject and say, 'Let's tell enough lies about that and people will start to believe it.'

Senator Watt interjecting—

Senator Watt interjects. Were you one of those, Senator Watt, who went around and told the ultimate lie that Medicare was going to be privatised?

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Macdonald, would you resume your seat? I would like to remind you of standing order 193(3), which says that ' all imputations of improper motives and all personal reflections on those Houses, members or officers shall be considered highly disorderly.' I'd like you to reflect on that with your continued stance in respect to improper activity on the other side of the chamber.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thanks, Mr Acting Deputy President Gallacher. For a moment, I thought you were going to call Senator Watt to order for continuing to try to bully me and shout me down when I'm speaking. If I've cast an imputation on Senator Watt, it doesn't seem to have worried him, because he has laughed all the way through it. So I ask him again—through you, of course, Mr Acting Deputy President—whether he was one of those who went around and deliberately told the untruth to the Australian public that Medicare was going to be privatised. I thought that Senator Watt readily admitted that he was, that he went around and told what we all know now to be the ultimate lie—one of the biggest I've seen since I've been in politics. Remember that before the last election there were newspaper ads and how-to-vote cards being handed out—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Macdonald, you are entitled to be heard in silence.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Watt, have you had your moment of glory now?

Senator Wong interjecting—

You seem to think question time is all about Penny and that, if the focus is not on Senator Wong, question time has failed—but, quite clearly, question time does fail because answers are given. The minister stated the facts, which the previous speaker just chose to ignore completely. Funding for aged care is at record levels. In 2017-18 alone aged-care care spending is estimated to reach $18.6 billion. Over the next five years, funding will grow by $5 billion to $23.6 billion. Compare Labor's record, where they would continually cut funding to aged care—and many other things as well, I might say—with this government's record of increases of $5 billion over the next five years. In addition, $1.6 billion has been provided to create an additional 20,000 higher-need home care packages since last December. In excess of $50 million is being provided every year for dementia specific programs. A further $5.3 million has been committed over four years to pilot improvements to care for people living with dementia, with an emphasis on the use of innovative technologies.

These are actual facts. These aren't lies. These aren't thought bubbles. These don't come from the Labor Party's campaign promoters about what might appeal to Australian voters. These are actual facts. What Senator Polley has indicated—and no doubt Senator O'Neill will do this shortly—

An opposition senator interjecting—

Make up any lie you like. Follow the normal Labor program and make up any lie give any misstatement of fact. They hope that if they say it often enough, the Australian public will believe it. It worked for Medicare.

Opposition senators interjecting—

It did work for Medicare, and I guess this is the next Mediscare campaign. They talk about aged people with facts that are not true and hope that some of it sticks for political purposes. (Time expired)

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What we saw with that contribution is what we see typically from this Liberal government—a denial of the reality facing Australians. Senator Macdonald stood here today and started talking about lies. We are talking about 108,000 Australians today. Some of them might be related to you. Many of them are in the area where I live on the Central Coast—750 of them being very poorly represented by the member for Robertson, Lucy Wicks. They need a change of government to address the fact that 108,000 Australians—on the figures provided by this government's health department—are waiting for an aged-care package. Do you know what that means? It means 108,000 people today are waiting for somebody to come and give them a hand, maybe to have a shower; to help them clean the linen on their bed; to take them to the shops. There are 54,000 Australians on that list who have absolutely nothing. Yet this government is pretending that they are the new friend of the aged.

We know that this is a big con job because last week, not surprisingly, the new Prime Minister, Mr Morrison—if you can keep up with the quick changes that are going on over there—decided that he needed to have a break from the bad image that the Liberals have. So he has decided, 'There is going to be a Four Corners report out on Monday. What can I do to keep those aged people on my side?' So he has decided to call a royal commission, ignoring the fact that this government is sitting on 13 reports—as they sit there in question time, ignoring the issue every single day when they come here—13 reports that tell us they have to invest properly in health and particularly in aged care places. Prime Minister Morrison wants to blame Tony Abbott and say, 'Yes, he wasn't such a great leader. Turnbull has gone. I'm so much better; I'm going to look after aged Australians.' But he can't deny the fact that he is the uniting force behind those two former prime ministers. He was the Treasurer who took $1.2 billion out of aged care. It's not a big shock to the rest of us who live in the real world, who understand what it means when you don't get somebody to come and help you with a shower, who understand what it means when your ill health in the aged period of your life turns into dementia, and after having worked your whole life you're sitting on a waiting list for two years to get a response.

The insult that this government adds to the injuries that they've already inflicted is that they've played a game where they've pulled money out of aged care, against some people in residential aged care, and they created 14,000 places for aged care packages at home. I'm all for supporting the people who want to live at home. I'm all for people getting the care that they need. But don't play the game of pitting one part of the sector against the other. That's what they did. They did the little double shuffle—pulling the money from here and giving it over there. That's no money going into the sector at all. Remember, $1.2 billion in their budget was what they took out of aged care, and now they want to pretend that they're friends of the sector.

You've seen the media responses and the stories that we have heard today. When this royal commission kicks off, which Labor has been calling for for some time, we'll hear horrendous stories. The reality is that we've got level 3 and level 4 care packages that are needed right now today. If this government thinks that as opposition we are going to sit back and let them say, 'It's all okay. We're going to a royal commission'—it's not okay. It's not enough, because today there are 108,000 people waiting for an aged care package. Today there are 54,000 Australians who have absolutely no help coming into their homes, despite the fact that they're trying to stay there. The reality is, sadly, that we have seen the consequences of leaving aged people without care. When it really gets to the pointy end, it means that some Australians will die in their homes. That is just the reality. We talk about politics sometimes like it doesn't matter in our lives, but it matters for these aged people. They should be telling the truth to Australians. Have a royal commission, yes, but do it properly. (Time expired)

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I find it quite amazing that Senator O'Neill says, 'They should be telling the truth.' Just like Labor was telling the truth at the last election about privatising Medicare? Is that the sort of truth you want to talk about, Senator O'Neill? They were telling complete furphies to the Australian people, saying, 'A coalition government will privatise Medicare.' What rot!

I tell you what is the truth, Mr Acting Deputy President Gallacher, these words:

… remains unconvinced a royal commission into the sector is warranted—

into the aged-care sector of course. Who said that? Mr Bill Shorten in June 2018—remains unconvinced a royal commission is necessary. Of course, there's a change of heart now—always a change of heart into royal commissions from those opposite. In 2014 when the Greens moved a motion here to have a royal commission into the banking and finance sector, where was Labor? Over there opposing it. That's for sure. Yes, Senator Cameron, they were. I was over there with the Greens supporting it.

Senator Cameron interjecting—

I was over there supporting it; You were opposing it. Just like we recommended a royal commission when Senator Bishop handed down his economics committee report. Labor opposed it. Thank goodness it's going now. Thank goodness we've got it up and running, and let's hope it sorts the sector out.

I have no doubt whatsoever that tonight's Four Corners story will show some very damning evidence of the care in aged-care facilities, but those opposite will say, 'Oh, it started in September 2013 when the coalition was elected. It was all perfect up till then.' That's what they'll say. No, it's never been all perfect, and no doubt there will be problems put to the public tonight and they'll be very concerned by what we see on television.

Senator Polley said the government's shown no leadership about getting this issue fixed and putting a spotlight on it. Let me tell you, Mr Acting Deputy President: as a result of the increased audit work we commissioned as a government to deal with this problem, the Department of Health has closed almost one aged-care service per month since Oakden with an increasing number, I understand, to improve the quality of care. So almost one a month has been closing after we commissioned the inquiry into the problems, and the Department of Health have acted ever since. So to say we've shown no leadership is absolute rot.

This is simply a political game being played. I'm with Senator Macdonald: what do we ever get out of question time? A waste of taxpayers' money. Perhaps the money that we're wasting here on question time and taking note of answers should be put into aged-care facilities. That'd be a good idea. We'd stop wasting time, stop wasting taxpayers' money and the aged would be looked after better.

Those opposite are very concerned about the aged—yeah, right. Those self-funded retirees who've retired and are ageing—you want to tax them twice on their dividends, the shares they've invested in. Fully franked shares—these people are on $30,000 or $35,000 a year, and you want to tax them again. That's really looking after them. Just cut their budget—they're living on a shoe string budget now.

To say we've cut spending—Senator Scullion made it quite clear: we've increased spending to the aged-care sector by a billion dollars every year since we've been in government with another $5 billion on the way. This is going to be a political football, and it shouldn't be. Everyone in this building, on all sides of politics and on the crossbenches, should work together so that the necessary aged-care changes are brought in. A good start is a royal commission to have a good look at the whole industry. Of course it's expensive.

Of course you need nurses, carers, people and domestic staff working in aged care. My mother was in an aged-care facility in Inverell for many years, and I thought overall they did a very good job looking after her—I was only with her probably an hour or two before she died, and the staff were simply wonderful. I have heard of neglect and abuse in facilities around New South Wales. People probably get frustrated, angry—that's where they've got to learn to be a little tolerant with the aged, especially those suffering dementia, Alzheimer's, all sorts of memory loss and you name it. Sadly, one in two Australians aged 80 and over will suffer some sort of memory loss, dementia, in one way or another. Sure, you've got to be tolerant, and it's 24-hour work in aged-care facilities, day and night—GPs visiting, volunteers visiting. Thank goodness for the many volunteers who visit the elderly to comfort them, give them some hope and some friendship—that's another vital thing we should look at. But to see the politics being played out now about aged care and how it's all our fault—this has all just happened since we've been in government; it was all perfect before then—is absolute rot. Let's hope we get it right in the future.

David Smith (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I also wish to take note of answers given by the minister representing the Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care, Senator Scullion. For a long time, Labor has been saying that there is a crisis in our aged-care system, and finally the government has recognised this and that the crisis is of sufficient magnitude to announce a royal commission. The quality standards and reporting system clearly isn't working. There aren't enough aged-care workers and they aren't given enough pay, respect or support. As Gerard Hayes said earlier today, it's right that a royal commission must go beyond simply asking what's happening and get to the bottom of why it's happening and how it can be fixed. That means tackling the issue of financial sustainability so that aged-care providers can afford to provide the level of care that Australians deserve while also providing appropriate pay and conditions for staff.

Over 1.3 million older Australians receive aged-care services every year, including 240,000 people receiving permanent residential aged care. As our population ages, and particularly as the number of Australians aged over 85 grows, the number of Australians in need of aged-care services will continue to grow. I've experienced the challenges of this system firsthand with my father moving to care over the last 18 months. As Treasurer, the current Prime Minister cut nearly $2 billion out of the aged-care system. He can't hide from this behind a lapel pin. Initially, these cuts were to be achieved by changing the scoring matrix for aged-care funding subsidies. This was supposedly justified by claims that some aged-care providers were claiming a higher level of subsidy than was warranted by the needs of residents. This government's initial claim that this was due to unsupported growth in aged-care funding claims was blown out of the water by their own changes which spread the impact of cuts across the aged-care sector, pausing relevant indexation for 2017-18 to ensure that the amount of savings was maintained. Clearly, these were funding cuts driven by the need to find savings for things like tax giveaways to the banks and multinationals rather than any concerns for improving the aged-care system.

We shouldn't be surprised that this system is in crisis. To provide quality of life to older Australians and their families, we need our aged-care system to deliver accessible, affordable and quality aged care. However, what this government has done falls way short of that. I've spoken to dozens of aged-care workers across the Australian capital region and their message is pretty clear. You simply can't impose cuts of this magnitude on a sector like aged care and not expect it to have an impact on the quality and availability of care for older Australians and to put more stress on a workforce that is already under pressure to provide quality care for those in need. More than 108,000 Australians are now waiting for a home-care package and around 88,000 are waiting for a high-level package. Without additional funding, these Australians will have to continue to wait for an adequate level of care. Over 53,000 of these older Australians on the waiting list are receiving no support at all.

This government has been on notice about the need to address the crisis in aged-care funding for some time, not just in residential care but in home-care support. The December 2017 data showed that over 104,000 Australians were waiting for that package, but what was the government's response? A mere 14,000 extra packages delivered over four years. Furthermore, they delayed the release of the March 2018 figures, which showed the waiting list had grown further since the start of the year. Older Australians being made to wait for home-care packages is a problem affecting all areas of Australia. Here in the ACT, the December 2017 figures show that 1,593 older Australians were waiting for a home-care package. Two-thirds of them were waiting for the highest level of support, level 4. As the Our Turn To Care campaign has put it, when the Prime Minister took away the time that aged-care workers had to help older Australians with their arthritis, their blood pressure, their pain management and even applying the most basic bandages and dressings, he took away the time that older Australians had to enjoy their retirement; he took away the time they could relax with their families and see their grandchildren grow; he took away the time they had to enjoy the days they spent their whole lives working for. It's critical the Prime Minister— (Time expired)

Question agreed to.