Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Jobs and Innovation, Senator Cash. Earlier today the minister said in relation to the Australian Federal Police investigation: 'You would also know that I am not being interviewed. I have not been under investigation, nor my office.' Can the minister now confirm to the Senate that she has not been interviewed by the Australian Federal Police?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have to say, Senator Cameron, that I would have thought it would be more appropriate to ask about the labour force figures and the employment in this country.

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That's right—they are not interested. Senator Cameron, I have confirmed time and time again that this is not an investigation into me or my office, no matter how many times you try to say that it is. I have also stated that, as you know, the AFP have requested public interest immunity in relation to this, and I respect what they have requested. But I have to say, colleagues, that it is now 12 months—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Cash! Senator Wong, on a point of order.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, this is a serious question. The point of order is direct relevance. The minister has been asked to confirm an out-of-chamber statement that she has not been interviewed. We're asking her to confirm it here in the chamber.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann, on the point of order.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. Senator Cash could not have been more directly relevant to the question that was asked. As the President often advises and confirms for the chamber, the opposition can ask questions. As long as the minister is directly relevant to the question, which she was, you are not able to direct the minister on how to answer the question.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Quite right. I will rule on the point of order. I cannot instruct a minister how to answer a question as long as they're being directly relevant to the question. I believe, in this case, the minister is being directly relevant to the question.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I've stated, it's 12 months now, almost to the day—in fact, it's slightly longer—since the issue first arose of whether or not the Leader of the Opposition, when he was the head of the AWU, actually had the appropriate authorisations in relation to a $100,000 donation to GetUp! and a $25,000 donation to the campaign. I would have thought those on the other side, who say they stand up for workers, would have wanted to know that the workers' money was being expended appropriately.

Government senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I want silence during the question. Senator Cameron, on a supplementary question.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can the minister now confirm to the Senate that she has not been interviewed by the Australian Federal Police?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, as the senator knows, this investigation is not into me and it is not into my office, no matter how many times you say it.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, on a point of order.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The point is direct relevance. We are putting to the minister a statement she made publicly just a few hours ago. We're asking her to repeat that guarantee to the Senate. She ought to be required to answer.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, Senator Cormann?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the same point of order, Mr President, I submit that Minister Cash was being directly relevant to the question asked.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order: I cannot instruct the minister how to answer a question. Senator Wong, you've drawn the minister's attention to a very specific question. She has been speaking for eight seconds. She has 52 seconds, if she wishes to continue her answer, but you have reminded her of the terms of it.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, the AFP have confirmed, and I quote: 'As this matter is under investigation, it would not be appropriate to discuss the matter further.' But, again, for the record, I will confirm: it is not an investigation into me; it is not an investigation into my office.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I'll call Senator Cameron when there's silence. Senator Cameron.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is the government continuing to provide legal advice to Senator Cash in relation to the Australian Federal Police investigation and possible prosecution by the Commonwealth prosecutor? If yes, what is the total cost to date?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I raise a point of order. That is not a supplementary question and it's not a question that relates to the minister's portfolio. This is a question that relates to the Attorney-General's portfolio and the Finance portfolio. This is a question about legal indemnity for ministers of the Crown, as has been available to ministers of the Labor government and as is available to ministers on both sides of government. It does not relate to the portfolio of Jobs and Innovation.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, did you want to respond?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, we would accept, as is my recollection, that the money and the decision may well come from the Attorney-General's Department, but I would have thought that the question of whether or not her legal advice is being paid for would be something Senator Cash might know, and that it clearly relates to matters about which she's being questioned.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Ministers can be questioned on statements they have made. I'm obviously not familiar with every statement the minister has made, but the minister is free to answer the question to the extent of that. The point that Senator Cormann has made is relevant, but ministers can also be questioned on statements they've made. So, to that extent, I'll invite the minister to answer that part of the question she is able or willing to provide information about within her responsibilities and public statements.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. I've stated before that it is common practice for legal assistance to be provided to ministers when it relates to proceedings involving their ministerial duties. Senator Wong received legal assistance via the Australian government—this is not an unusual procedure—as did Wayne Swan and Kevin Rudd. So the answer is: yes, I'm following the normal government procedure.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, on a point of order?

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On direct relevance. What we're asking is: what has been the total cost to date? The minister has provided information on cost to estimates. She should provide the same to the Senate.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, I provide people with liberal opportunity to restate the question when they're raising a point of order on direct relevance. You know as well as I do that I cannot instruct a minister how to answer a question. The minister was actually answering, in one word, part of your question when you rose.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, that precise part of the question that Senator Cameron just quoted relates to a portfolio that is not Minister Cash's portfolio. It's not in her area of responsibility at all, and she's not in a position—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, Mr President, you correctly identified that ministers can be questioned about issues and public statements that they've previously made. I don't think it is in dispute that the minister has provided evidence before about her legal costs. We accept that she may need to refer this question to the Attorney-General for a precise amount if she doesn't know, but I don't think it's in dispute that she's previously made statements about this.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My point on this is that, as I interrupted the senator there, I heard Senator Cash directly addressing part of the question. That was directly relevant. Senator Cash, have you concluded your answer or do you wish to continue?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, these questions have been answered in detail at estimates. I'm going through the normal process. I'll take on notice and refer to the Attorney-General's Department any further questions.