Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Cormann. A secret survey conducted by the Business Council of Australia found that fewer than one in five chief executives—that's less than one in five chief executives—will use the Turnbull government's $80 billion handout to big business to increase wages or employ more staff. How can the minister continue to tell Australian workers that the Turnbull government's $80 billion handout to big business will benefit them when even business leaders know it's not true?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said in response to a previous question, it is clear that the Australian Labor Party in 2018 no longer understands the principles of basic free-market economics.

Senator Jacinta Collins interjecting—

Let me tell you what doesn't work. Socialism doesn't work. There are examples around the world that show—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Cormann, please resume your seat.

Senator Jacinta Collins interjecting—

Senator Collins, Senator Wong is on her feet. I will call Senator Wong when there is silence. Senator Wong, on a point of order.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The point of order is direct relevance. This is a question about a survey which indicates that that fewer than one in five chief executives will use a tax cut to increase wages or employ more staff. I fail to see how an answer about socialism can possibly be directly relevant to that.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister has only been speaking for 20 seconds. There was a second part of the question that started with, 'How can the minister continue', which I didn't get the rest of. Given that the minister has been speaking for 20 seconds I do consider him at this point to be in order.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The interjection from Senator Collins, which I take, was that the market doesn't work. That is the problem with the modern Labor Party. The other thing she said—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Collins, on a point of order.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister is misrepresenting my interjection. What I said was: 'Trickle-down does not work.'

Senator Fifield interjecting—

Senator Birmingham interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Collins, and Senators Fifield and Birmingham, the way to avoid misrepresentations of interjections is not to make interjections in the first place. I encourage all senators to be orderly and to not take interjections either.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The other thing wrong in the good senator's question is when she references an $80 billion tax giveaway to big business or the big end of town—or whatever she said. Unless she thinks that a business generating more than $10 million in revenue—which is going to be hit for a six by Mr Shorten, as a result of his captain's call, imposing higher taxes on small business—is part of the big end of town then her question is simply another attempt to mislead the Australian people.

Let me just explain some basics of free market economics. If you get more investment in the generation of products and services that consumers want, businesses generating those products and services will hire more people in order to generate those products and services that people want. And if they are successful in selling those products and services that people want to those people, not only does that deliver a higher quality of life to consumers; it also means that, as businesses around Australia hire more people, there's more competition for workers across the Australian economy. Do you know what happens when there's more competition? Business has to pay more to secure their services, not because they want to out of the goodness of their hearts but because they have to. That is the fundamental law of supply and demand: if there is stronger demand for workers then people have to—

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Adam Smith—here we go!

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You see, now Senator Collins is criticising Adam Smith! (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Collins, a supplementary question.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

For the record, I have not been criticising Adam Smith!

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! On my right! Senators Fifield, Birmingham and Bushby! Order on my right!

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He'll give me more time, surely?

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator, I will call you to order when I think you've had 30 seconds. Senator Collins, please continue.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Can the minister confirm that less than eight per cent of the BCA's member CEOs are prepared to increase investment in Australia if the Turnbull government is able to pass it's $80 billion tax cut for big business? Less than eight per cent say they'll increase investment.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That's the beautiful thing about competition. If big business is not prepared to invest more, there's opportunity for small business. On this side of the chamber we want smaller businesses to become bigger businesses. We understand that every big business today is a small business of yesteryear, and that that is actually the way a successful economy works: it provides the incentive for small businesses to become bigger and bigger businesses.

Let me read you another important quote:

… lowering the corporate rate for smaller businesses only (as the Greens propose) creates an artificial incentive for Australian businesses to downsize.

In worse case scenarios some businesses might actually lay people off to get smaller—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, on a point of order.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, a point of order on relevance. This goes to the issue of business saying that only eight per cent will actually invest in jobs and new investment. That's the question the minister should go to, instead of this rhetoric and nonsense.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, a point of order is not a time to make a political point, as you did at the end. Senator Cormann is being relevant to the question.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm interested that Senator Cameron referred to this as rhetoric, because it was a quote from none other than the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Shorten! He said that putting a cap on company tax, limiting it to small business, would be a cap on growth. It would provide an incentive for business to downsize into higher— (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Collins, a final supplementary question.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When even business leaders won't commit to increase wages, create jobs or increase investment, why is the Turnbull government continuing to mislead Australians about the Turnbull government's $80 billion tax cut to big business?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Our commitment to a lower, more globally competitive business tax rate will deliver stronger growth, more investment, more jobs and higher wages. That is actually what none other than Mr Shorten used to say, and that's what none other than the shadow Treasurer, Chris Bowen, used to say. As Bill Shorten said, very eloquently:

… lowering the corporate rate for smaller businesses only … creates an artificial incentive for Australian businesses to downsize.

In worse case scenarios some businesses might actually lay people off to get smaller - and the size based different tax treatment would create a glass ceiling on business workforce growth.

Mr Shorten said:

Instead we want a level playing field regardless of the size of the company.

We believe what Mr Shorten used to believe, and that is that a commitment to the free market, to free enterprise and to reward for effort is the best opportunity for all Australians today and into the future to get ahead.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Let's hear what you say!

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Here we go—the sneering Labor Party dismisses a commitment to the free market as trickle-down economics. We are committed to the free market— (Time expired)