Senate debates Questions without Notice
Minister for Jobs and Innovation
Murray Watt Queensland, Australian Labor Party
2:55 pm
My question is to the Minister for Jobs and Innovation, Senator Cash. After the Federal Court issued a subpoena requiring the minister to give evidence in relation to her and her office's involvement in leaking information about an AFP raid, the minister said:
I have issued instructions for the subpoena to be set aside.
Why is the minister so concerned about giving evidence under oath? What exactly does the minister have to hide?
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation
Senator Watt, you are the one who has questioned me in estimates now for over 40 hours, I think, and you know that everything I have stated is set out on the Hansard record. I have absolutely nothing to hide. This is politically motivated by the AWU. The proceedings are between the AWU and the Registered Organisations Commission, because the AWU did not want to produce the documents to show that donations made by Mr Shorten—
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
No, the point of order is on direct relevance. This goes to the issue of the subpoena and why the minister is refusing to comply with the subpoena. She has been asked why she is so concerned about giving evidence under oath. She ought to answer that question.
Scott Ryan President
I'm listening carefully to the minister's answer to this question. I consider it directly relevant. I also note she has been speaking for only 28 seconds and has just over 1½ minutes remaining to answer.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation
As I said, this is politically motivated, nothing more and nothing less. The AWU do not want to produce the documentation to show that the donations were properly authorised.
Murray Watt Queensland, Australian Labor Party
2:57 pm
The Attorney-General has now revealed that taxpayers will foot the bill for the minister's application to set aside the subpoena. Who is acting for the minister in relation to this matter, and what is the estimated cost associated with responding to the subpoena?
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
And Kevin Rudd. You don't want to go there.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
You didn't even hear the question.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
You've pulled me up, fair enough, but pull the leader up too.
Scott Ryan President
Senator Wong, I will manage the chamber. There have been a number of questions with interjections around the chamber that I haven't heard.
Scott Ryan President
Senator Macdonald, please remain silent while I'm ruling. Today has been particularly noisy, and it has been difficult to hear questions across the chamber, even from up here.
Ian Macdonald Queensland, Liberal Party
Point of order: it is lack of courtesy but also against the standing orders that the Leader of the Opposition should continuously argue with you when you are making rulings. I ask you to deal with her as you would deal with any senator. This is not a separate Penny Wong charity event. She needs to perform to the same standards as every other senator should.
Scott Ryan President
I have called numerous senators to order today, including senior senators, Senator Macdonald. I was just addressing that issue, and I thought I dealt with it sufficiently just then.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation
2:58 pm
As per the legal services direction—and Senator Wong would know this from her time as a minister—ministers may receive legal assistance when matters arise relating to their duties as a minister. That is what is occurring, and I'm following the process.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
The point of order is on direct relevance. The question was: who is acting for the minister and what is the estimated cost? It was not a question about the order.
Scott Ryan President
Senator Wong, I apologise: I was in consultation with another senator for the 11 seconds of the minister's answer; I will listen carefully to the next 49.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation
In relation to the estimate, I will take that on notice.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
Why don't you just be honest?
Murray Watt Queensland, Australian Labor Party
2:59 pm
I point out that the minister might also like to take on notice who is acting for the minister. The minister regularly lectures this chamber on the need to speak out against thuggery and intimidation. Last night an elderly woman and a middle-aged man were assaulted in a violent brawl at a Liberal Party meeting, with a witness reporting:
They took him outside and started kicking him. To be honest I thought he was going to die.
Has the minister called out this thuggery?
Scott Ryan President
Order, Senator Watt. I've got Senator Cormann on a point of order.
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
On a point of order: even with the broadest interpretation of the standing orders, this cannot possibly come within the standing orders as a supplementary question.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Let the record show that the Leader of the Government in the Senate does not think thuggery in the Liberal Party should be discussed.
Scott Ryan President
Senator Wong, it's hard to take that as a response to Senator Cormann's point of order. Senator Watt, you've got seven seconds remaining to make the question relevant to the substantive question.
Murray Watt Queensland, Australian Labor Party
Given the minister's very strong interest in thuggery and intimidation in politics and union affairs, has she called out this thuggery in the Liberal Party?
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
I maintain the point of order. This is not a supplementary question consistent with the standing orders.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
On the point of order: the minister's answers in relation to this issue have consistently been to criticise the actions of the trade unions. She has made many statements today, and yesterday, about thuggery and intimidation, which she asserts in relation to one part of politics. This is a question which goes to those statements.
Scott Ryan President
Senator Wong, I am struggling to see how this supplementary question is relevant to the substantive question. What I will do is review the Hansard and come back to the chamber but, as has been done previously, I will invite the minister to make a statement if she wishes.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Jobs and Innovation
3:01 pm
I think the record would show on numerous occasions that we will call out thuggery whilst those on the other side, whilst they're supported by the CFMEU, embrace it.
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.