Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Employment, Senator Cash. In evidence to the Senate Education and Employment Committee on 25 October, the minister admitted that she personally approved taxpayers funding the cost of defending Mr Hadgkiss for actions he admits were illegal. Section 5 of appendix E of the Legal Services Directions provides that approval to cover the legal cost of employees should normally be given if the employee 'acted reasonably and responsibly'. On what basis did the minister form the judgement that Mr Hadgkiss had acted reasonably and responsibly?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Cameron for the question. Again, I would have to say, though, Senator Cameron, that to say this was canvassed extensively at estimates, as you would recall, is an absolute understatement. As you were also advised at estimates, it is longstanding practice, regardless of who is in office, for Commonwealth statutory office holders and employees to be indemnified for the costs of defending legal proceedings brought against them. Under appendix E to the Legal—

Scott Ryan (President, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Cash. Senator Cameron, are you raising a point of order?

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes—a point of order on relevance. I asked the specific question: how did the minister form the judgement that Mr Hadgkiss had acted reasonably and responsibly? How did the minister form that judgement?

Scott Ryan (President, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister has been speaking for 29 seconds. I consider her as being within the scope of the question you asked and directly relevant to it, Senator Cameron.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, on 14 November 2016 it was again explained to you at estimates, Senator Cameron, that Mr Hadgkiss filed his defence in the litigation. He denied, as you know, any contravention of the Fair Work Act. I subsequently approved financial assistance for his legal costs. Again, as you were made aware extensively at Senate estimates, this was consistent with appendix E to the CommonwealthLegal Services Directions and did not cover the penalty ordered against him. Under appendix E to the Legal Services Directions, assistance is not precluded to an official who acted negligently. The assistance I approved was consistent with the Federal Court's findings that he was careless but he did not intend to contravene 503(1) of the Fair Work Act.

Scott Ryan (President, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, a supplementary question?

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, Mr President. Section 7 of the schedule provides that:

If it is not clear whether the employee has acted reasonably and responsibly, it may be appropriate to defer a decision on assistance until the conclusion of the proceedings…

Given Justice Collier had described Mr Hadgkiss's conduct as, 'At the higher end of the scale of seriousness', why did the minister not choose to defer a decision?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, Senator Cameron, as was explained extensively to you at Senate estimates hearings, I have made my decision in accordance with Legal Services Directions.

Scott Ryan (President, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, a final supplementary question.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How much have Australian taxpayers paid as a result of the minister's decision to defend Mr Hadgkiss for action he himself admitted was illegal?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Cameron, for that question. Again, as was explained to you at Senate estimates, we have not yet received the final figures from the ABCC. However, colleagues, before we go, we do have a few minutes, so if we want to talk about legal costs being incurred by those who don't deserve it, why don't we talk about the legal costs incurred by the members of the CFMEU? When it comes to behaving not in accordance with the law, the CFMEU are the worst offenders in this country.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left!

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They have recently been handed out the absolute maximum fine that you can be handed in Queensland. And what do those on the other side say? Senator Wong says, 'We run a protection racket for our friends.' Senator Wong—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Cash, have you concluded your answer?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No.

Scott Ryan (President, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, on a point of order.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm just very concerned about Senator Cash's health if she keeps doing this sort of response. She really needs to settle down or she will be in health trouble.

Scott Ryan (President, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is not a point of order, Senator Cameron. Resume your seat. Senator Cash.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong and those on the other side—

Opposition senators interjecting —

Senator Wong—the great defender of the CFMEU; the former lawyer who represented them. The CFMEU—millions and millions of dollars in fines in this country. Those on the other side run a protection racket for them. (Time expired)

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You're unravelling. Look at you; everybody knows you lied to the Senate. Your reputation is shot.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Penny, at least I don't interfere with foreign countries. And you're the shadow foreign affairs spokesperson—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, it's with great reluctance that I interfere with that fabulous performance. I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.