Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
2:22 pm
Mr President, I add my congratulations on your appointment.
My question is to the Minister for Employment, Senator Cash. After failing to attend a supplementary budget estimates spillover hearing of the Senate Employment and Workplace Relations Legislation Committee on 27 October, the minister has refused to make herself available to give evidence to the committee until after parliament rises for the year. Given the gravity of the issues facing the minister, why won't the minister just front up to the committee and come clean?
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women
I thank Senator Cameron for the question. In relation to the estimates hearing that I—
Scott Ryan President, Special Minister of State
Order! Take your seat, please, momentarily, Senator Cash.
Linda Reynolds WA, Liberal Party
Mr President, I have a possible point of order. I'm just wondering whether Senator Cameron could reflect on his question, because I'm wondering whether it's actually a breach of committee privilege in terms of committee deliberations.
Scott Ryan President, Special Minister of State
I will take some counsel on this. Senator Reynolds, whether internal deliberations of the committee are being aired publicly is a matter for the committee to determine, not for me to determine from the chair. So I'll call Senator Cash in response to the question.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women
Thank you, Mr President. As I was saying, Senator Brandis advised the committee as to why I was unavailable on the Friday. In relation to the next Senate estimates hearing, Senator Cameron, you would be aware the committee itself has determined the date is 8 December.
Scott Ryan President, Special Minister of State
Senator Cameron, a supplementary question.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
2:24 pm
Why has the minister refused to make herself available on any of the 40 days between 27 October and 6 December? Minister, why are you hiding?
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women
Yet again, I have subjected myself to two estimates hearings, as you'd be aware. There was a third estimates hearing on the Friday and, again, the committee has determined that the next estimates hearing will be held on 8 December, and there are also numerous question times between now and 8 December.
Scott Ryan President, Special Minister of State
Final supplementary question, Senator Cameron.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
Labor and Greens senators offered to convene the hearing on any Saturday or Sunday between 3 November and 6 December. Does the minister consider her weekends more precious—
Scott Ryan President, Special Minister of State
Senator Reynolds, a point of order.
Linda Reynolds WA, Liberal Party
I appreciate your previous advice on this matter, and as chair of the committee I will certainly be taking your advice; however, I believe now that Senator Cameron is flagrantly breaching committee-in-confidence deliberations from reading out information that is not—so, I just—
Scott Ryan President, Special Minister of State
There are two issues. My previous advice about it being a matter for a committee to pursue whether there has been a breach, rather than for the chair here, stands. Also, the words I have recorded were that Senator Cameron was referring to Labor and Greens senators. If there's another issue, that is something for the committee to take up.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
Does the minister consider her weekends more precious than those of the 700,000 workers facing cuts to penalty rates, or is the minister simply hiding from the scrutiny and refusing to be accountable to the Senate?
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women
2:26 pm
Again, I completely reject the premise of Senator Cameron's question. The committee has determined that the next estimates hearing will be on 8 December. But I have to thank Senator Cameron in relation to the issue on penalty rates.
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Honourable Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Scott Ryan President, Special Minister of State
Order! Sorry, Senator Cash, I have Senator O'Sullivan on his feet.
Barry O'Sullivan Queensland, National Party
Mr President, I'm one of those senators who hangs on every word of Senator Cash, and I can't hear any of them. I would ask that you rule that the others be quiet while we listen to these very comprehensive answers.
Scott Ryan President, Special Minister of State
Again, we've had a second request from a senator who can't hear the answer of a minister, so I'll ask senators to show some courtesy to their colleagues and hear Senator Cash in silence.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women
As I was saying, in relation to the issue of penalty rates, Senator Cameron, you are absolutely wrong. The only person in this place as a parliamentarian who has record and form in relation to slashing penalty rates, as you know, is the current Leader of the Opposition, Mr Bill Shorten. You can stand up and say what you like, but when it comes to the shop, distributive and allied union—Senator Don Farrell's favourite union—don't they like to get into bed with big business and do dirty little deals to take away the penalty rates of low-paid workers on Saturdays and Sundays? And what do those on the other side—
Scott Ryan President, Special Minister of State
Order on my left! I have asked once. It is getting difficult for me to hear. Interjections can have their place, but not a wall of noise that prevents other senators—
Senator O'Neill interjecting—
Order, Senator O'Neill! Interjections have their place; a wall of noise that prevents substantial numbers of senators from hearing a minister's response does not.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women
Those on the other side are quite happy to come in here and run a protection racket for dishonest union bosses.