James McGrath (Queensland, Liberal National Party, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the bill be now read a third time.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I wasn't intending to take part in this debate, but I get sick and tired of certain politicians, particularly Senator Lambie, coming into this chamber and throwing one-liners away about how awful the Department of Veterans' Affairs is and how it's a shambles and how the veterans aren't well looked after by the government and the Australian taxpayer. I want to put on record that the Department of Veterans' Affairs does a magnificent job in looking after our veterans and the people who've done so much for Australia in years gone by. The minister, Mr Tehan, is approachable. He's very understanding and he will do everything in his power to help all of those for whom he has responsibility as the Minister for Veterans' Affairs.

I'm not well-versed in the detail of veterans affairs matters, but often people approach me, as a senator for Queensland, with problems. Do you know what I do? Rather than going to my local newspaper or television station and getting a headline about thumping the desk about how awful this one individual case is, I actually get in touch with the minister's office. If it's possible to resolve the matter, I will work quietly with the minister and the department to get a resolution. No headlines, no politics, no seeking votes, no wanting to be known in the community because I make these outrageous claims as political pointscoring—I get in and do the job, and I know that most parliamentarians do the same. Whilst the Department of Veterans' Affairs are not perfect—none of us are—they will try their best to help out, and they do.

It's not only the department. The department and the minister and the minister's office work with the RSL communities around Australia, with the advocates for veterans, and do their very best to help. I have members of my own family who receive assistance from the Department of Veterans' Affairs—magnificent assistance. In fact, at times I'm overwhelmed by the support my aged sister, who is the widow of a veteran, actually gets. I don't want to prolong this debate but I do get very sick and tired of these one-liners—unsubstantiated usually—about how awful the department, the public officials, the minister, the RSL clubs and all those trying to help veterans are. I urge senators who do get genuine complaints to speak with the minister and speak with the department. Try and resolve the matter—don't use it to score political points.

As recently as last Friday I was at Lavarack Barracks, Australia's largest Army base. I was farewelling, on my own behalf and on behalf of the minister for the Army, the latest task force group going to the Middle East. I met a lot of the troops there. One particular soldier I spoke to had his grandparents there. The grandfather was in a wheelchair and, while I was there, he approached me about this. He had a complaint about his wheelchair and his mobile walker. I said to him: 'Look, here's my card. Please get in touch with my office. We can't talk about the problem here, but I'm very happy to try and help you resolve the issue you're having. It may not be possible, but I'll try and help you.' That's what senators should do. We shouldn't be making veterans affairs an issue for political pointscoring that achieves nothing.

I urge senators, if they are genuinely interested in our veterans, to actually deal with the minister's office on the issues that veterans have. The minister, I know, is so approachable. His office is very, very good. The department is good and understanding. They can't help 100 per cent of the time, but they'll always try. Where they can't, those of us who have elected positions in this parliament can always try to either amend the rules or amend the legislation. But these cheap, throwaway lines about the department being a shambles are simply not correct. Ninety-eight per cent of the time they do a wonderful job and can resolve issues that come forward. In deference to the great work of the minister, his office, the department, the RSL clubs, the advocates, the other service organisations, such as Vietnam veterans—all of whom do so much work to help the veterans whom we all owe enormous gratitude—I think we should be celebrating what they all do and not using cheap, throwaway lines for political pointscoring.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Quite clearly, somebody's going senile and has no idea what they're talking about—

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Lambie, I insist that you withdraw, because you know it is inappropriate to reflect upon another senator in such a manner as that. So please withdraw.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

For someone to come in here and say I'm taking cheap shots—

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Lambie! Sit down. You have been directed to withdraw. You will withdraw that comment unconditionally.

Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Acting Deputy President, I'd just like to clarify what exactly you would like Senator Lambie to withdraw. I think it's within her rights to defend herself when we've had another senator come in here and spend time attacking Senator Lambie. If Senator Macdonald comes in here and attacks Senator Lambie, she has every right to defend herself.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you—you are now debating the point. I have determined that Senator Lambie has used language which is (a) unparliamentary and (b) reflects poorly on another senator. It is for the chair to determine what constitutes offensive words and imputations.

Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Which was it, though?

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You know precisely what word it was. If you don't, I don't propose to repeat it, Senator Hanson-Young. I've asked Senator Lambie to withdraw. Senator Lambie, withdraw.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Acting Deputy President, I withdraw. But what I don't appreciate, I can tell you now, is that I used two of my staff—I have no extra staffing for this, on these veterans, Senator Macdonald—

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You've got four extra staff that I don't have.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is a very big cohort we have and an absolutely amazing number—

Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order, Mr Acting Deputy President: I find it extremely hard to understand—

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What's your point of order, Senator Hanson-Young?

Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'd like you to bring Senator Macdonald under some type of control.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Hanson-Young, that is not a point of order. You're not helping the debate. You're very late to this—

Senator Hanson-Young interjecting—

That's unparliamentary too, so I'd ask you to withdraw. That is unparliamentary, Senator Hanson-Young.

Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Senator Lambie, you have the call.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have to say that the male chauvinism in here just never ceases to surprise me.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator McGrath on a point of order.

James McGrath (Queensland, Liberal National Party, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Acting Deputy President, I would ask you to ask Senator Lambie to withdraw that comment, please. It is a reflection upon other senators in this chamber. And I'd ask those sitting around Senator Lambie to encourage her to calm down a bit.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Lambie, were you about to withdraw in the interests of peace and harmony?

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was just about to say it's actually a personal opinion, and everybody knows what it's like in here—it's a tough gig; it's no different from the Army. There's a lot of male chauvinistic attitude going on in this chamber.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Lambie, resume your seat. Senator McGrath, I'm considering your request for withdrawal. It is in the chair's determination. Senator Lambie, it would help if you withdrew those comments, because they do reflect poorly on senators. It would help the debate, so I'd ask you to withdraw and then you can have the call again.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So, as I was saying—

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'd ask you to withdraw the imputations and the words you used.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I understand what you're asking me to do, Mr Acting Deputy President, but there is truth in what I'm saying and I have no intention of withdrawing those comments.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Resume your seat, Senator Lambie. Senator Macdonald.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Acting Deputy President, I agree with your ruling, of course, but my point of order is that the comment was a reflection on the chair, as well as others. Forgetting about the others—I know Senator Williams, Senator McGrath and I can withstand these barbs from people like Senator Lambie—I think it's the reflection on the chair that is the matter that should be withdrawn, and so I take the point of order that the senator should be asked to withdraw the reflection on the chair, which was the comment she made after you made a ruling and which you've asked her to withdraw.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Macdonald, you are quite right. Senator Lambie, there was a point of order raised in regard to a reflection that you made upon the Senate as a whole. I took some advice in respect of that. I asked you, in the interests of goodwill in the Senate, to withdraw those comments, because they were deliberately inflammatory and reflected very poorly upon others. I consider that to be disorderly. I will give you another opportunity to withdraw those comments in the interests of continuing the debate.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

With all due respect, Mr Acting Deputy President Bernardi, I don't see them as defamatory. I don't see them from the angle that you're seeing them from, but that doesn't surprise me. I actually see them as being honest and truthful, and this is what is lacking in this chamber.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Lambie, resume your seat. Senator Lambie, it's very clear you don't understand the difference between Senate decorum and defamation. It's also clear that you are now challenging a very reasonable request of the chair. The only option you are giving me is to actually report you under 203, which is an infringement of the order. My suggestion—I will give you one last opportunity in order to do this—is to withdraw those comments in the interests of this debate. Senator Lambie, will you be withdrawing those comments?

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Lambie. You have the call.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr Acting Deputy President Bernardi. You know, these veterans are really feeling it out there. There have been issues with Veterans' Affairs for a very, very long time. You can ask any external service organisation out there. We've got some massive issues going on outside in the service organisations as well. They are split; there are many groups of them out there. They are not united either. You have put bandaid after bandaid after bandaid on from the department; that is what you've done. You people come in here and try and cover up and pretend, for nicety's sake, that it is fine and dandy and that it is running along just fine, when we've already hit 61 suicides this year. And I wake up on Monday morning and hear that a young man has finally woken up out of his coma—he is another statistic, after fighting Veterans' Affairs for five years. I think that's pretty heartbreaking. You can see that this is full-time in our face in our office. I've lost two staff, who have gone down after dealing with Veterans' Affairs over the past two years, because it's complicated and it's difficult to hear the harrowing experiences of veterans and their families and what the Department of Veterans' Affairs is doing to them.

It surprises me that a senator that comes from Northern Queensland, which has one of the highest representations of Defence, can walk in here and, in plain ignorance, think that nothing is going on and that these people have been treated fairly by Veterans' Affairs. I would suggest that senator go out there with their boots on. I would suggest that senator should have shown up every day at the inquiry, while the rest of us sat through listening to their stories and trying to hold back tears. This isn't a one-off. Over 500 submissions were put to that inquiry, and they are still coming in. The Defence Force Ombudsman is struggling to keep up with the demand. So we have some serious issues here.

I won't come in here and serve my time as a senator and put it in the too-hard tray, or pretend that nothing is going on. I won't do that, and I won't do that to every man and woman that has served this country. The trouble is you are now being questioned because there is finally somebody that is here to represent them. And I will continue to do that. I will not be silenced, and I shouldn't have to be silenced. They want a voice in here. You've had plenty of time—both sides—to fix this. And it is getting worse. Veterans' Affairs is getting worse. When you've got somebody like Liz McCrossin who basically says in front of a TV camera, 'Yes, I admit, we've got some massive problems,' then I think it's pretty hypocritical of a senator to walk in here and pretend everything is okay, when it quite clearly is not. They are hurting.

One of the best things that you people on that side could do is get those 24 recommendations put in, and do it now, because that is what is going to save lives—not the DRCA. It will be the 24 recommendations that you put in and act on as quickly as you possibly can. And get that department cleaned up. The other issue you have in that department is that there is abuse going on with departmental staff at lower ranks. This is why we want a national audit in there, because it will pick that up. You are coming unstuck at the seams. For goodness sake, be honest with yourselves as a department and let your people come out and speak without any repercussions, and then we finally might get the veterans the help that they have been begging for year in, year out.

Question agreed to.

Bill read a third time.