Senate debates

Monday, 27 March 2017

Questions without Notice

Fair Work Commission

2:28 pm

Photo of Anne UrquhartAnne Urquhart (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Brandis. Given the Prime Minister has indicated that his government supports a pay cut of up to $77 a week for up to 700,000 of Australia's lowest paid workers, what work has the government undertaken on the overall economic and budgetary impact of the pay cut?

Photo of George BrandisGeorge Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | | Hansard source

Sorry, Senator Urquhart, I am just not going to indulge your fancy. The Prime Minister has said no such thing, and your assertion that he has done so is not the truth. What the Prime Minister has said and what the government says is that we should respect the decision of an independent umpire in determining wages and conditions. You know, Senator Urquhart, because you were a backbench member of the government that created the Fair Work Commission, that it was established for the very purpose of being an independent umpire. That is why it exists. That is why you set it up. If you are going to respect the decisions of an independent umpire then you have to—

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order. Pause the clock. A point of order, Senator Gallagher.

Photo of Katy GallagherKaty Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, it is on relevance. The question was: 'What work has the government undertaken on the overall economic and budgetary impact of the pay cut?'

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

The preamble to that question was 'given that the Prime Minister has endorsed the pay cut', and the Attorney-General rejected that completely in the beginning of his question. The Attorney-General has been directly relevant.

Photo of George BrandisGeorge Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | | Hansard source

Whether you like the decision or whether you do not, Senator Urquhart, if you are going to respect the industrial relations system, and if you are going to respect the rule of law, you ought to respect the decisions of an independent umpire.

You asked me what the government is doing in relation to the matter. You touch upon the issue which Senator Cameron raised. The government last Friday made a submission to the Fair Work Commission on transitional arrangements. I do not know if you were listening when I answered Senator Cameron's question, but one of the things that the government submitted to the Fair Work Commission in dealing with the transitional arrangements—in other words, the arrangements to give effect to the implementation stage of its determination—was to ask the commission to take into consideration the potential economic impact and effects on employees and to take into effect the importance of mitigating any hardship that might be experienced. As well, the government asked the Fair Work Commission to ensure that transitional arrangements were made as simple as possible so that they could be executed in a way that was understandable to the employees. The transitional— (Time expired)

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Senator Urquhart, a supplementary question.

2:31 pm

Photo of Anne UrquhartAnne Urquhart (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Modelling by the Australia Institute has revealed that penalty rate cuts could cost the Commonwealth budget $650 million over four years. Does the Turnbull government intend to cut services, increase taxes or increase debt to fill the budget black hole resulting from the pay cut it supports?

Photo of George BrandisGeorge Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | | Hansard source

Good heavens! We are hearing a Labor senator lecture this government about debt! May I remind you that when you were last elected to government there was no public debt. There was no public debt. When you were thrown out unceremoniously six years later, we inherited the worst set of public accounts in Australia's history. The debt position today would be immeasurably worse, Senator Urquhart, if your side of politics were in power. So, Senator Urquhart, rather than coming here into the Senate and bleating about government debt, why don't you get out of the way and stop blocking the savings measures that this government is taking to try and repair Labor's debt?

Senator Urquhart, the fact is you referenced the Australia Institute, a well-known left-wing think tank. I do not take at face value anything that the Australia Institute may have to contribute on this subject or others.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Senator Urquhart, a final supplementary question.

2:32 pm

Photo of Anne UrquhartAnne Urquhart (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Why is the Turnbull government so desperate to see a pay cut to some of Australia's lowest paid workers that it is willing to take a budget hit to achieve it?

Photo of George BrandisGeorge Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | | Hansard source

Senator Urquhart, I am sorry—this might be tedious—but every time you tell a lie I am going to point out the truth. The fact of the matter is that the Turnbull government made no submission to the Fair Work Commission recommending a reduction in Sunday penalty rates.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Senator Gallacher, a point of order?

Photo of Alex GallacherAlex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

The point of order is that Senator Brandis is accusing another senator of a direct lie. That is against the instructions you have issued to the temporary chair and members in the Senate about the use of the word 'lie'.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Thank you very much, Senator Gallacher. I was probably too busy writing. Senator Brandis, it would help if you withdrew.

Photo of George BrandisGeorge Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | | Hansard source

If it helps, Mr President, I will. Senator Urquhart, every time you mislead the Senate I will set the record straight. But I am surprised you asked that question. You know that the government made no submission to the Fair Work Commission recommending a reduction in Sunday penalty rates—none whatsoever. You also know that the Turnbull government last Friday made a submission to the Fair Work Commission, on the transition and implementation arrangements, that it should take into consideration the economic impact and the effects on low-income earners in mitigating any hardship that may be experienced. That is the submission the government has taken, but we do say, and will say so time and again, that we respect the integrity and the independence of the Fair Work Commission.