Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Does any senator wish to have—Senator Macdonald?

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I raise a point of order. I note that there is a proposal to have the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee meet today and 24 March, which is tomorrow. My point of order—and I am not quite sure how to deal with it—is that there has been no legitimate meeting of that committee to determine to meet on 24 March. There was a meeting yesterday. Senator Watt and I both had to leave the meeting. The meeting was then inquorate. The discussion had started about the decision to meet, but it had not concluded. It had not got anywhere near the moving of a motion to meet on the 24th when the committee became inquorate. I did, as I left the meeting, indicate that the committee would be inquorate, so the committee was aware of it. I raise, as a point of order, the fact that this actual request is here for the meeting on the 24th.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Macdonald. On the same point of order, Senator Dodson.

Patrick Dodson (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes. I was at that meeting, because I am a member of the committee.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can I just clarify, I probably will not take it as a point of order, but I am happy for this to be a point of clarification in relation to what is on the Notice Paper. Senator Dodson.

Patrick Dodson (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes. I have it as a point of clarification. Our advice from the secretariat was that the notice given by Senator Macdonald that the committee was not constituted appropriately was contrary to his view of that, so we proceeded.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Dodson. I will go to Senator McKim and then Senator Hinch.

Nick McKim (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was also at that meeting. I do note that Senator Pratt has just arrived in the chamber and may wish to make a comment here. The very clear advice given was that a member is unable to call attention to whether or not a committee is quorate after they have left the meeting. It was only when Senator Macdonald was leaving the meeting that he did it over his shoulder on the way out.

Derryn Hinch (Victoria, Derryn Hinch's Justice Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was at that meeting, and I support Senator Dodson and Senator McKim. Their recollection of what Senator Macdonald said is quite accurate.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A legitimate point has been raised by Senator Macdonald with me. Senator Pratt, you wish to speak on the matter as well.

Louise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Environment, Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We took very clear advice from the secretariat at the time. We took their clear guidance and advice, and I took that as chair.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Macdonald on this issue.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The committee was clearly inquorate. Senator Watt had left, and I stood and said, 'I'm leaving; you are now inquorate', and then I left the meeting. It was clear to anyone there that the committee was then inquorate. The fact that Senator McKim has a different view of things really does not take the matter any further. The committee was clearly inquorate and if this proceeds it means we get to the stage where, as long as there is a quorum at the beginning of a meeting, everyone can leave and then one person can maintain a committee hearing by himself or herself. If we get down to that, it even further diminishes the standing of Senate committees and the notice that is taken of Senate committees, because they have become an absolute farce. This committee, particularly, keeps demonstrating that it does not matter what the rules are, it will do whatever the Labor and Greens majority want. They set up meetings knowing that no government member will be there. They therefore have these hearings, which are just extensions of the Labor Party and Greens political campaign using Senate money and Senate time and resources to run a political line.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Macdonald. I have heard enough of the debate. Senator Bernardi, on the same matter.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am just seeking a point of clarification. This is seeking approval for a committee to meet whilst the Senate is sitting. If that being the case—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am about to deal with that point.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If that being the case, it only takes one objection by a senator before it has to be put to a vote. That is my understanding of the standing orders.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is correct, Senator Bernardi, but what has actually happened is I have asked if any senator wishes to have the question put on any of these matters. Senator Macdonald has not asked that. He sought a point of—

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am going to get to the points. Firstly, it is not a matter for the President to determine the affairs of a committee. A committee determines its own affairs. One of the points of concern has been raised by Senator Macdonald. Maybe Senator Macdonald should write to the Procedure Committee or write to me in relation to that to have that matter examined. Secondly, committees determine their own agendas and their own issues. It is up to the Senate if it wishes to take issue with the performance and with the outcomes and the deliberations of a committee. But a committee is empowered by this Senate to deliberate and take action.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

But they have to be quorate.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, the issue of being quorate or not is a matter that, I think, needs to be examined in a different forum, not in this chamber. I asked did any senator wish to have the question put on any of those matters. Senator Macdonald, you did raise the issue of that particular committee. Do you wish to have the question put on that committee?

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would want to have that one put. It is unfortunate, because the request contains two requests—one for today, which I have no objection to which was legitimately determined by the committee; but the one tomorrow was not determined legitimately by the committee. So I do ask for that to put.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will deal with it in this way. I take it that there is no objection to all the other committee requests; there is no objection to any of those proposals. Senator Macdonald, I am happy to split the question in relation to the dates for the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee to meet today and 24 March. I gather there is no objection to the meeting today. Therefore, the question is: does the Senate agree to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee meeting tomorrow during the sittings of the Senate if the Senate is sitting?

Louise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Environment, Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The ATO is not available.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Perhaps I could save the Senate time. The chair just advises me by way of interjection that the inquorate committee has now determined that there will not be a hearing tomorrow.

Louise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Environment, Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The witnesses were not available.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In that case, Senate Macdonald, are you happy to withdraw the request to have that proposal put?

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think the chair should tell the chamber that she withdraws the request to meet tomorrow.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not going to turn the Senate chamber into a deliberation about committee matters. That is what we have committees for. The only question I am interested in now is this: Senator Macdonald, do you wish to put the question about that committee meeting tomorrow?

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As deputy chair of that committee, all I am aware of is a request by the inquorate committee to meet tomorrow. Now I am being told that the committee is not meeting. They have not had the courtesy to tell the deputy chair. So—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Macdonald, there is only one question before the chair.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

yes, I do need it put.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The question is that the Senate approves the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee to meet tomorrow during the sittings of the Senate if the Senate indeed sits. Those of that opinion say aye and those against say no. The ayes have it.

Question agreed to.