Chris Ketter Queensland, Australian Labor Party
2:49 pm
My question is to Senator Cormann, the Minister representing the Treasurer. I refer to reports in The Australian that the Prime Minister has ordered Treasury to include second round effects modelling in costings for the innovation statement. Is this true?
Stephen Conroy Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
You are in that much trouble. You are going to dodgy up the numbers—
Cory Bernardi SA, Liberal Party
You know about dodgying up the numbers, Senator Conroy.
Stephen Parry President
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
You would have liked to have dodgied up the numbers against Malcolm, but you couldn't!
Stephen Parry President
Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—
Senator Macdonald.
Honourable senators interjecting—
Order! Senator Macdonald!
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
2:50 pm
I have told the senator before that he should not believe everything he reads in the newspaper. Of course, the next budget update, as with every budget and budget update that we have provided in the past, will be prepared consistent with the provisions of the Charter of Budget Honesty.
Chris Ketter Queensland, Australian Labor Party
I have a supplementary question. Can the minister confirm that the Charter of Budget Honesty costing guidelines requires the departments of Treasury and Finance to take into account first round effects only and will generally not incorporate second-round effects? Will the costing of the innovation statement include second-round effects?
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
I have, in fact, already answered that question.
Kim Carr Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science
No, you didn't.
Opposition senators interjecting—
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
For the avoidance of any doubt, of course, the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook as a budget update, like every budget and budget update we have provided—
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
The question was, 'Will the costing of the innovation statement include second-round effects?'
Stephen Parry President
In fairness to the minister, we need to give him a bit more time. He is only 15 seconds into his answer. Senator Wong?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
There is no reference to MYEFO in the question. How can it possibly be relevant to this question?
Stephen Parry President
I am going to give the minister a little bit more time to respond. Minister.
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
No wonder that Senator Wong was the worst finance minister in the history of the Commonwealth. No wonder that she was the worst finance minister—
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
in the history of the Commonwealth.
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
She does not even know—
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
that an innovation statement would be reflected—
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
in the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook.
Stephen Conroy Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Dear, oh dear!
Opposition senators interjecting —
Stephen Parry President
Order on my left! Minister, I did give you the good grace of allowing you to respond, and I think you abused the good grace I gave you. But I will call you to order and to answer the question.
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
The question related to the Charter of Budget Honesty. The only way that question can be relevant is in the context of how the innovation statement, as any other policy measure of the government, is costed in the context of budgets and budget updates. It was directly relevant, and the fact that the good senator on the opposition side does not get this point, the fact that she made the point of order she made, shows how little she understands—
Senator Wong interjecting—
I have already indicated that all of these policy measures— (Time expired)
Chris Ketter Queensland, Australian Labor Party
2:53 pm
Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Doesn't the Prime Minister's extraordinary intervention show that this government is cooking the books in order to mask the fact that the innovation statement will be an additional hit on the bottom line in the government's December budget update?
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
I completely reject the premise of the question—No. 1. No. 2, the answer that I gave to the primary question was that we would be costing—
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Why does Christopher Pyne get a leave pass?
Ian Macdonald Queensland, Liberal Party
Can you keep quiet for five seconds, Senator Wong?
Stephen Parry President
Order on both sides! Senator Macdonald and Senator Wong!
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
As I have indicated in answer to the primary question, costings for this measure, as for any other measure in MYEFO, as in every budget and budget update so far, will be done consistent with the requirements of the Charter of Budget Honesty. The assertions that Senator Ketter and Senator Wong have been making are false. Of course we will be preparing costings for the innovation statement, as for any other budget measure, consistent with the requirements in the Charter of Budget Honesty.