Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Brandis. I refer to the cabinet revolt over the Prime Minister's plan to strip Australian citizens of their citizenship and the Prime Minister's refusal to confirm that a full cabinet submission has gone to cabinet.

Senator Cormann interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can the minister confirm that the plan—

Government senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my right.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will repeat the question. I refer to the cabinet revolt over the Prime Minister's plan to strip Australian citizens of their citizenship and the Prime Minister's refusal to confirm that a full cabinet submission has gone to cabinet. Can the minister confirm that the plan to strip Australian citizens of their citizenship was not made on the basis of a full cabinet submission, including legal advice?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, you do speculate a lot and erroneously about process. It is rather—I am bound to say—like hearing Satan denouncing sin to be lectured by you about proper cabinet process.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order: do you think, Mr President, that making an allusion to Satan is parliamentary? Come on.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do not think that is unparliamentarily, but I will advise the minister and remind the minister of the question.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If it hurts your feelings, I withdraw it. Senator Wong, we have been witnessing with fascination on the ABC for the last two Tuesday nights what proper cabinet process was for the government of which you were a member—a litany of chaos and dysfunction that went on for six years. The Abbott government, by contrast—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I asked one question: can the minister confirm that the plan to strip Australian citizens of their citizenship was not made on the basis of a full cabinet submission, including legal advice? That is the only question I asked. I ask that you request that the minister return to the question and be relevant.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will remind the minister of the question. He has one minute and 25 seconds in which to answer it.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was about to say, unlike the chaos and dysfunction which characterised the cabinet of which Senator Wong was a member, all decisions by the Abbott government are made through an orthodox and proper cabinet process—every single decision.

Since you raised the matter about what we propose to do about dual citizens who are engaged in terrorist conduct, yes, you are right, Senator Wong. As the Prime Minister has announced, we will be introducing legislation next week to strip dual citizens of their citizenship in circumstances in which they are engaged in terrorism. We look to the Labor Party, from whom we have had uncertain signals, to support us. We look to the Labor Party to support us because this ought to be bipartisan. Australian governments and opposition parties ought to join together to take all appropriate measures to keep Australians safe. Rather than playing politics with national security, Senator Wong, rather than engaging in ill-informed and erroneous questions about process, get behind the objective.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I have a supplementary question. I refer to the Prime Minister's confirmation that the final legislation to strip citizenship from dual Australian citizens will not be considered by the full cabinet. Does the Prime Minister mistrust his cabinet colleagues so much that he is planning to bypass his cabinet and go straight to the party room?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

National security legislation, like all legislation, has been and always will be considered—

Senator Wong interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, you have asked your question.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I cannot even hear myself speak for the braying interjections coming from the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Malcolm Turnbull is a better lawyer than you and you are scared—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, you have asked your question. Minister, you have the call.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

All legislation—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Malcolm is a better lawyer than you and you want to avoid the cabinet.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I cannot even hear myself speak for all the yelling out from Senator Wong.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senators on my left and on my right are not facilitating the smooth flow of question time. Just as the questioner is entitled to be heard in silence so is the minister.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order; it is really a request. Can you ask the broadcasting people to please turn up the sound on Senator Brandis's microphone because I am sitting this close to him and I cannot hear his answer over the constant shouting of the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If all senators exercise restraint and do not interject, we will be able to hear the minister.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was trying to say, all legislation, including legislation in relation to national security, will be considered by an orthodox cabinet process. This legislation is no different.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I have a final supplementary question. I refer to the Prime Minister's promise: 'Cabinet government and the Westminster tradition will always be maintained under my prime ministership.' With the Prime Minister bypassing his ministerial colleagues and his cabinet, and with his cabinet leaking like a sieve, can the Minister representing the Prime Minister advise when Mr Abbott decided to junk this promise too?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, I know you like scoring political points on national security issues, but I am not going to let you get away with it. This is legislation which was considered after an orthodox process. It will be introduced next week. This will be a test for the Australian Labor Party—whether they support the Australian government's attempts to keep our country safe. We are not encouraged, I might say, by some remarks that came from the shadow Attorney-General at a press conference this morning when asked about this legislation. He was asked by Kieran Gilbert:

So, someone who is fighting in Al-Raqqah in Syria?

Mr Dreyfus replied:

Well, you get them back here. Right?

Get them back—that is what the shadow Attorney-General would do. That is the point of difference. If somebody is fighting for ISIL in Syria, we do not want them back and we will make sure they do not get back. But Mr Dreyfus wants them back.