Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
2:25 pm
My question is to the Minister for Human Services, Senator Payne. I refer to the Chief Executive Officer of the Consumer Action Law Centre, Gerard Brody, who says that consumer lease companies like Radio Rentals are providing high-cost credit arrangements to welfare recipients through Centrepay and that:
Often the costs are three to five times the value of the goods that are being rented…
Can the minister confirm that this is correct?
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
2:26 pm
I very sincerely thank Senator Cameron for that question. It has only taken 18 months, 23 Senate sitting weeks, 86 Senate question times and 367 opposition questions without notice that for Senator Cameron to have whatever modicum of intestinal fortitude it requires to stand up in this place and ask me one question.
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Government Senators:
Government senators interjecting—
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
And I am extraordinarily grateful!
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
The PRESIDENT: Order on my right! I think I can anticipate what your point of order is going to be, Senator Cameron. Minister, please come to the question.
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
I understand that Senator Lines is moving further down the chamber and encroaching on Senator Cameron. She has his back—there is no question about that.
Honourable senators interjecting—
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
I think that 18 months, 23 Senate sitting weeks, 86—
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
On a point of order, Mr President: the minister has been on her feet for some time. She just flagrantly ignored your direction to her to return to the question—or your reminder to her. She may not have noticed, in her desire to run through the statistics she keeps, that the question is about welfare recipients and the high cost of credit arrangements. These are important matters and we would appreciate it if she responded to them.
Stephen Parry President
Minister, I do draw your attention to the question and I ask that you do come to the question.
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
I actually think it is extremely important to place on the record the complete lack of focus of the shadow minister on his portfolio.
Opposition senators interjecting—
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
It is about time that Senator Cameron actually participated genuinely. Is he taking pay for this job, Mr President?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Stephen Parry President
Minister! Senator Wong, I think I can deal with this.
Honourable senators interjecting—
Order on my left! On both sides!
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
He is the president! He has told you three times. You're behaving like a student politician, Marise!
Honourable senators interjecting—
Stephen Parry President
Order, on my right and on my left! Order! Senator Payne, I will ask you to address the question. I know we allow some preamble. That has gone on for too long. I would draw your attention to the question and ask that you address the question. Senator Payne.
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
I am very happy to address the 368th question without notice from the Labor opposition in this chamber, and the first from the shadow minister for human services on the portfolio human services. In relation to Centrepay and the question raised by the shadow minister, I repeat: we have worked over some period of time to better protect the recipients of Centrelink payments who are engaged with Centrepay undertakings. We have a number of agreements with the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and the Australian Energy Regulator, which particularly enabled Centrelink to exchange information about the businesses that participate in Centrepay. As well—
Stephen Parry President
Pause the clock. Senator Cameron on a point of order.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
Mr President, I raise a point of order on relevance. I was asking about the cost of these rented pieces of equipment that are three to five times the value of the goods that are being rented. The minister has not gone anywhere near that question.
Stephen Parry President
Senator Cameron, you had a number of points and then the final part of your question was, 'Can the minister confirm that this is correct?' I think the minister is addressing components of your preamble to your question.
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
Of course, what Senator Cameron fails to say in his answer is that the arrangements, I might note, were introduced by the previous government. I would note that the report Senator Cameron referred to is not a report of government— (Time expired)
Jacinta Collins Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary
How many days have you been minister?
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
Longer than you.
Stephen Parry President
Senator Collins! You are not to interject.
Senator Back interjecting—
And nor are you, Senator Back. Senator Cameron, a supplementary question.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
2:32 pm
Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Does the minister stand by her claim that for some customers accessing high-cost credit through Centrepay 'is really their only access to any form of credit'. Is the minister unaware of alternative low-cost providers that are available for the purchase of household goods, like Good Samaritan microfinance?
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
2:33 pm
I thank the senator for the question, his first supplementary question to me as Minister for Human Services. What I would say is that there is a small number of no-interest loan scheme arrangements and low-interest loan scheme arrangements, and also a number of emerging players—I suppose would be the term—in the market who are interested in participating far more than was the case previously. Consumer leases of the nature to which Senator Cameron has referred have for a number of people, particularly in very remote parts of Australia, often been their only recourse for obtaining goods of this nature. They are welfare recipients who do not have the sort of credit rating that enables them to participate in the full financial market, and that is a very important aspect of what we are currently considering and a very important aspect of the negotiations that we are undertaking with the authorities to which I referred earlier. (Time expired)
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
2:34 pm
Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. What action has the minister taken to protect Centrelink clients from consumer leases that exploit the vulnerable? Or is Credit Suisse correct when they say in their recent report on the risks in payday lending and goods rentals that significant changes to Centrepay would require a change of government?
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
I can say with absolute confidence that Credit Suisse is wrong in a number of aspects in that report, and that is just one of them. The Assistant Treasurer, Mr Frydenburg, and I—completely coincidently as it happens—met last week on this issue to discuss Centrepay and to discuss aspects in which Treasury may be engaged in assisting Centrelink to address some of the concerns that have been raised with us. This is not something that has been around—
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
Just fix it! We don't need to know—
Marise Payne NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services
ASIC, the ACCC, the Australian Energy Regulator—we are addressing these issues. (Time expired)