Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to Senator Abetz, the minister representing the Prime Minister. I refer to the threats made by the Minister for Education, Christopher 'the fixer' Pyne, on Sunday's Insiders program, when he said:

… there are consequences … for not voting for this reform … The consequences are that potentially 1,700 researchers will lose their jobs …

Was this threat authorised by the Prime Minister?

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Before I call Senator Abetz: Senator Carr and all senators, please refer to members of the other place by their correct titles.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Let us get one thing very clear: no threat was made. But what I would remind the honourable senator opposite of is his record and the Labor government's record. Indeed, Nobel laureate Professor Brian Schmidt said on ABC radio:

I think this is an incredibly important reform. The current university funding model is … broken.

He then went on to say:

This has been a bit of a train wreck for the last five years. In 2011, on the day I won the Nobel Prize, I brought this up as a challenge for the then Labor government that this was being done on a year-by-year basis, it was being done very poorly …

So that of which Senator Carr speaks is a Labor legacy. When we got into government, we found that there was no money left for research and science, or NCRIS, I should say. The money ran out as of 30 June 2015. And, as my good friend the Minister for Finance assisted me with yesterday, on page 88, if I recall, of budget paper—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, my point of order relates to direct relevance. I asked: did the Prime Minister authorise Minister Pyne's threats to the 1,700 researchers—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It was a lapsing program.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

namely, that they would lose their jobs?

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, there was an implication in your question about a threat. The minister, first up, said there was no threat, 'Let me be clear.' The minister has 37 seconds left to answer the question. Minister.

Senator Wong interjecting—

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So it was a lapsing program, was it?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This was a lapsing program, using the words of Senator Wong herself just then. Just then, in a very ill-disciplined interjection, the leader of the Labor opposition in this place acknowledged it was a lapsing program. Which was the government that provided the money to ensure that it was no longer lapsing? It was the coalition, it was us, that restored the funding. So, please, Senator Carr, you who cut science and research in this country by hundreds of millions of dollars have no credibility in this area. (Time expired)

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Did the cabinet authorise the education minister's humiliating backdown on higher education and research funding, or was this yet another 'captain's call'?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There was no humiliating backdown, so once again we can dismiss the Labor Party rhetoric. The only backdown that has occurred is in fact that the Labor Party that stopped funding for this program as of June 2015 now, all of a sudden, want to be the champions of it, after we restored the funding on page 88 of Budget Paper No. 2 in the last budget. We restored the funding. We provided the funding for a program that, out of the mouth of the leader of the opposition in this place today, we have heard, was a lapsing program—a program that the Labor Party thought was so unnecessary it could simply lapse. And today they come in here pretending to be the champions of NCRIS! Labor's actions in government speak so much louder than their words in opposition. (Time expired)

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I refer to Professor Bruce Chapman's statement in The Australian today, on the government's latest deregulation plan:

… I still expect that prices, at least for the Group of Eight strong demand courses, will be at least two and a half times higher …

Can the minister confirm that this would result in $100,000 degrees for four-year courses in law, accounting, veterinary science and business administration—or has Mr Pyne fixed that too?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is an assertion with which we as a government of course disagree, as does—and I will get his name right today—Professor Ian Young. Not Ian Chubb but Professor Ian Young from the ANU has dismissed that completely. But, in relation to university reform, can I refer to the Nobel laureate Professor Brian Schmidt, who said:

I think this is an incredibly important reform. The current university funding model is, in my opinion, not very good. I would say it's close to being broken.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I raise a point of order on direct relevance to the question. The question referred specifically to Professor Bruce Chapman's comments.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Moore. The minister has 22 seconds in which to answer the question. I call the minister.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If Labor do not want to hear from a Nobel laureate, so be it. How about former Labor Premier Peter Beattie, who said:

Make no mistake—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order as to direct relevance. The only question that the minister was asked was to confirm that the increase would result in $100,000 degrees for four types of courses.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have rejected that.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Abetz!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is all he was asked. With respect, Mr President, it is a mockery of question time to allow ministers simply to answer any question by reference to a range of unrelated quotes.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: the question was clearly about the false assertion about $100,000 degrees and then whether I agreed with somebody else's quote. So, in response to that, I am providing other quotes absolutely rejecting the assertion of Senator Carr. Clearly, that is in order.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In relation to the point of order, the minister did answer up-front that he rejected the assertion of the question. The minister—as all ministers have and continue to do—can elaborate on the answer. Minister, you have the call.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If they do not like Labor has-beens, how about a current Labor fellow like Andrew Leigh, the member for Fraser:

… universities should be free to set student fees according to the market value of their degrees.

(Time expired)