Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Attorney-General, Senator Brandis. I refer to confirmation by the Secretary of the Attorney-General's Department that the Attorney-General asked him to, 'Formally put on the table with Professor Triggs a specific role.' Was the specific role discussed with the Prime Minister, his chief of staff or any member of his office before it was put on the table?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Collins, I addressed this issue yesterday, as a matter of fact. And as I said to you yesterday—or perhaps it was to Senator Wong—the evidence that Mr Moraitis gave to the Senate estimates committee last Tuesday and the evidence that I gave to the Senate estimates committee last Tuesday was entirely accurate and I have nothing to add to it.

I know you find it very difficult—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock! Senator Wong—a point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, Mr President. My point of order is relevance. The question was not in relation to the Senate estimates point; the question was in relation to whether or not the role about which evidence was given was discussed with the PM, his chief of staff or any member of his office before was put on the table. That is the only question the minister was asked.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Wong. I will remind the Attorney-General of the question, although there was a reference at the beginning of the question to matters that were made in the public arena at estimates. But I remind the attorney of the question.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. I know the Labor Party have tried to create a false impression about what Mr Moraitis, according to his evidence and at my request, suggested to Professor Triggs. It is no secret that I have lost confidence in Professor Triggs, and in the debate yesterday I explained why. But it is also the case that, as I said to the Senate estimates committee last Tuesday—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock! Senator Carr—a point of order?

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, Mr President. It is a question of relevance. The question was, 'Was the specific role discussed with the Prime Minister, his chief of staff or any member of his office before it was put on the table?' I would ask that you ask the minister to respond directly to the question.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Carr. I do remind the Attorney-General of the question.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is what I said: it was not my wish that Professor Triggs be reputationally damaged. And so, as a matter of goodwill towards her and in earnest of my good intentions towards her, I did say to Mr Moraitis that I hoped Professor Triggs could be encouraged or would be willing to serve the government in other capacities. Now, I know you have difficulty grasping the notion that, because a person may be bad—

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. I draw the minister's attention through you to the specific question. We know what he said at the estimates. We know that his secretary acted on his behalf. The question went to whether or not the minister discussed the matter with the Prime Minister, his chief of staff or any member of his office before that matter was put on the table.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister has plenty of time left in his response to the question. I call the Attorney-General.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am coming to the question, but I just make the point that just because a person may not do a satisfactory job in one role does not mean that they would not be very good at a different job. Take the case of Senator Wong, for instance, who, as the world knows, was a very bad finance minister but a very good backstabber! A backstabber as Mr Rudd, Ms Gillard and former senator Nick Bolkus, indeed, will tell you—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order of relevance. Senator Brandis is clearly enjoying himself. It is in no way relevant to the question that he was asked. It was a very specific question, and I would ask you to bring him back to the question.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order: the minister indicated that he would be coming to the question. He has nine seconds left to answer the question, and I call the Attorney-General.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

To come directly to the question: the decision to give Mr Moraitis the instructions that I gave him was entirely my own.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I ask again: was the specific role discussed with the Prime Minister, his chief of staff or any member of his office before it was put on the table, and was the specific role discussed with the foreign minister or her office before it was put on the table—not who decided it, who was it discussed with?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The decision to instruct Mr Moraitis as I instructed him was mine and mine alone.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I will try a different matter. Can the Attorney-General explain the difference between putting a senior role on the table and making a job offer?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think I can. I cannot do any better than reminding Senator Collins again of what I said at the Senate estimates: that, as a matter of goodwill towards Professor Triggs and in earnest of my good intentions towards her, I did say to Mr Moraitis that I hoped Professor Triggs could be encouraged or would be willing to serve the government in other capacities. I do not see anything unusual or irregular about that whatsoever.