Kate Lundy (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to speak on the ACT Government Loan Bill 2014. Firstly, I would like to thank my colleagues for supporting the quick passage of this bill through the parliament. This bill is of great importance to over 1,000 homeowners in the ACT who have been faced with the awful reality that their homes are contaminated, or potentially contaminated, with loose-fill asbestos. This bill provides the appropriate mechanism for the provision of a $750 million loan in the form of a concessional loan to the ACT government to deliver a program to buy back and demolish houses in the ACT that have been affected by Mr Fluffy loose-fill asbestos.

This is the first part of the $1 billion loan facility agreed between the federal and ACT governments on 28 October 2014. Seven hundred and fifty million dollars will be paid this financial year, with the remaining $250 million to be paid in the next financial year. This loan will allow the ACT government to enter into individual agreements with those individual homeowners to buy back their homes, demolish those asbestos-contaminated blocks, clear the blocks and then look to resell the blocks and recoup some of the costs across the overall scheme. The ACT government plans to buy and demolish 1,021 homes contaminated with Mr Fluffy asbestos insulation across Canberra. It is estimated that the buyback and demolition scheme will take five years to complete.

The loan arrangement between the ACT and Commonwealth governments will be for a 10-year period. I am pleased that the government has facilitated this loan to the ACT government. Without the loan it would simply not have been possible for a small jurisdiction like the ACT to make the quick and responsible response to the devastating situation facing so many families and individuals in Canberra who, less than a year ago, believed that the deadly loose-fill asbestos had been removed from their homes many years before.

I also acknowledge the bipartisan character that this conversation, negotiation and ultimate outcome have had, and I particularly acknowledge my colleague Senator Zed Seselja in that regard. I think it is appropriate at this juncture, however, to note that surprise and disappointment have been expressed that the Commonwealth did not acknowledge a shared liability of the situation for Mr Fluffy homeowners. Offering the loan as I have described still places the full burden and liability on the ratepayers of the ACT—a jurisdiction that was the responsibility of the Commonwealth when the initial loose-fill asbestos remediation took place. It is also very fair to note that this loan facility provides better terms than those which could be secured by the ACT government, thereby providing a quantifiable financial benefit to the ACT. Chief Minister Katy Gallagher has reflected on this point in the ACT Legislative Assembly this morning.

This morning, legislative assembly colleagues have introduced and debated their own bill, the partner bill to this legislation, to facilitate the program that has been put in place. I would like to quote from the Chief Minister's speech:

Forty-six years ago, well before self-government for the ACT was even contemplated, the Commonwealth had the opportunity to prevent pure asbestos being pumped into the ceilings of Canberra houses. The risks were known. Clear advice was provided. That opportunity was missed.

In the late 1980s the Commonwealth recognised the danger and designed a remediation program that aimed to remove visible and accessible asbestos insulation from affected homes.

Consideration was given at the time to demolishing the affected houses. That opportunity, too, was missed. In September this year the ACT Government asked the Commonwealth to honour a Memorandum of Understanding which dictated that future costs in relation to these homes be shared as they were during the remediation program.

Thankfully and appropriately, the ACT Chief Minister and assembly colleagues have not dwelt on this history but have focused ahead on facilitating the quickest possible action and remediation for affected homeowners

I am really pleased to report that the ACT government has introduced, as I said, their legislation this morning in an extraordinary sitting of the ACT Legislative Assembly relating to the remediation program, which will enable the Asbestos Response Taskforce to begin making buyback offers for the 1,021 Mr Fluffy homes as early as next week.

The Loose Fill Asbestos Insulation Eradication Scheme, as it is known, is unprecedented both here in the ACT and indeed in the world. As the Chief Minister said at the introduction of that legislation just a very short time ago, 'The cost and the complexity will test our government, our budget and our community.' The ACT government has taken responsibility to bring a permanent end to an asbestos legacy which has plagued our city for almost half its history. This by no means was an easy thing to do and continues to cause much distress in our community. As the Chief Minister has acknowledged again this morning, these are beloved family homes, and this process will bring great sadness to many. But the fact remains that they are not safe and nor can they be made so. In around 10 per cent of houses contamination is so bad that they are uninhabitable. Fibres have been detected in the living areas of between 50 and 60 per cent of houses, sometimes in visible quantities, and in the rest we know that fibres populate the walls, roofs and subfloors. There have been no easy choices in seeking to correct tragic failures of the past.

The Mr Fluffy legacy has had a profound impact upon the lives of so many of my fellow Canberrans. While the financial impact on families cannot be overstated—it has been huge for so many—the deeply devastating toll upon Canberrans has primarily been an emotional one, born of their sense of responsibility for those affected and for the wellbeing of their families, friends and people who may have worked on their houses in the ensuing period.

Barbara Walsh, the chief editor of the Fluffy Owners and Residents' Action Group's impact statement—tabled just last week by Senator Zed Seselja and myself—in her introduction to the impact statement eloquently distils the collective feelings of fear, guilt, anger and disillusionment of those touched by the toxic legacy of Mr Fluffy. Ms Walsh said:

There is overwhelming guilt from parents who feel they have betrayed their children by not keeping them safe. There are people with rare cancers who may never know if it was their random choice of house that contributed to their illness. There is a deep sense of grief that people will lose their homes and gardens, their havens, that hold so many precious memories, but which are now seen as a poison. There is anger that a government remediation program in the 1980s assured them the houses were safe to live in.

These stories contained within the Fluffy Owners and Residents Action Group impact statement are gut-wrenching, raw and powerful. They detail the deeply personal impact upon individuals and their families; the real and constant havoc and stress visited upon their lives by this calamity continues today.

None are more powerful than those from those whose lives have been touched by illnesses they fear are the result of exposure to Mr Fluffy's dangerous legacy or who fear for their children's futures. Chris from Canberra shared his story, and I would like to relay just a little of it to the Senate today:

Do I believe my mesothelioma came from my home? 100 per cent. My wife died of cancer in her 50s, and now I worry that she might have gotten it from the home too. At the time I didn't know. We had two family pets die of cancer. My biggest worry is my kids. My son worked on the roof with me.

Chris's story is, sadly, not unique. The devastating and life-changing consequences contained within it are typical of so many affected by Mr Fluffy. Lesley and Allan of Pearce also shared their story:

We are angry, so angry, distraught, guilt-stricken and very rapidly becoming weary, beaten and without hope. How could we end up in such a dire situation? Our house and our entire lives, as well as those of our beloved children, are contaminated to the very core by Mr Fluffy. Yes, compensate us fairly for what we have lost materially, but there is no compensation on this earth for the destruction of our peace of mind and the enduring fear we all now face of malignant disease with every breath we take, until the day we die.

This is from Judith of Hawker:

My children have not blamed us for this exposure. However when one of them said, 'I grew up in a house with asbestos.

I had no choice,' the comment cut me to the core. I live with it every day.

And Jenny from Aranda wrote:

We have lived in our Mr Fluffy home since 1997 when we moved in with our two children, aged four and seven at the time. I have always described our house as a happy house , not only because of the happy relationships nurtured inside it but also because it is in a lovely setting and filled with sunshine. It is the home in which I intended to continue to enjoy my retirement for the foreseeable future. I no longer feel this way. I see it now as a toxic house where I do not feel comfortable having visitors and here I shall not ever entertain my (future) grandchildren. I feel very guilty to think that I have exposed my children to this risk. Keeping children healthy and safe is one essential key to being a good parent, the most important role I have undertaken in my lifetime, and I have failed them in this. I have great concerns for the health of my husband who has crawled in the now condemned subfloor to install internet cabling. This area is where my children and others have fed our cats over many years and it has been regularly accessed as a storage area.

The unknowable, eternal nature of this distress is painfully elucidated in the submission from Clare in Hackett:

More than anything, I hope that our daughters have not been exposed to a dangerous amount of amosite. Will I spend the rest of my life wondering?

Will I die wondering?

An anonymous contributor to the impact statement, from Weston Creek, illustrates the heavy weight of that sense of responsibility for those whose connections were fleeting and tangential:

A lovely tradie who did all the electrical work on our house developed mesothelioma and died in August this year. I know it wasn't from working on our house specifically. Still, all those years, all those people, and we didn't know to warn them. We didn't even know we might need to protect ourselves.

These are people who all need to be looked after. I am so proud of the ACT government and, indeed, the ACT assembly as a whole that they have moved to establish this program that will resolve this problem once and for all.

I would like to conclude today by reflecting on the mental health issues associated with the stress and trauma resulting from living in a Mr Fluffy house. These people need to be looked after. I am really pleased that the ACT government has put in place free counselling to support affected families. I would like to take this opportunity to say to anybody who is affected and feeling distressed: please, you need to find support. You need to get support early. We understand—I think the whole community understands—what you are experiencing and going through. The following is taken from the taskforce website, and describes the supports that are in place for affected people and their families—in fact, for anyone who is distressed by what is going on:

The NewAccess Program is provided at no cost through the ACT Medicare Local and offers support from trained coaches for those who are experiencing mild anxiety or depression. People registered with the Asbestos taskforce can self-refer to this service by phoning the central intake number on 6287 8066. The coaches provide evidence based, low intensity psychological strategies and support, either face to face or over the phone, for up to 6 sessions.

For anyone who is experiencing moderate anxiety or depression your usual family doctor can complete a mental health treatment plan and provide referral for free sessions with a psychologist under the ACT Medicare Local’s HealthinMind program. For those registered with the Asbestos taskforce, any ‘gap’ fee for the GP visit … will be reimbursed to ensure that there is no out-of-pocket expense.

ACT Medicare Local will also:

… ensure priority access to NewAccess coaches and HealthinMind psychologists for eligible people registered with the Asbestos Taskforce.

For any urgent/crisis mental health concerns, particularly in relation to acute stress and/or risks to the immediate safety of individuals, please contact the Mental Health Triage intake line on 1800 629 354.

All of this information is available on the taskforce website but I underline it here today because I know that it is the psychological impact that is going to be one of the enduring legacies for people who have lived in a Mr Fluffy house. I have met with many families, personally, and seen and experienced the level of trauma and distress as they have shared with me their stories as, I know, have all my parliamentary colleagues in the ACT government. I know Senator Seselja has had similar contact.

I used to work with asbestos as a removalist when I was young. That experience led to a whole range of things, including my becoming active in the area of fighting for the occupational health and safety rights of working people. I know what it is like to live a life with asbestos in your lungs and not know. In this way I have the deepest empathy for all of the Mr Fluffy families. I am so proud to be part of a solution that will provide permanent respite for these people. I am incredibly proud of the Chief Minister and my ACT colleagues and I am incredibly proud of the ACT assembly for the bipartisan support they have shown through this program and tackling these problems. I am proud of the fact that I am in a federal parliament that has contributed positively in some way to finding a permanent solution to this devastating problem.

My heart goes out to those families and individuals whose lives this issue will continue to touch. We are doing what we can for you. We understand the depth of your distress. We hope that this program can alleviate at least some of that for you.

Zed Seselja (ACT, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I also rise to support the ACT Government Loan Bill 2014. I thank Senator Lundy for her comments and her contribution. I endorse the sentiment behind Senator Lundy's contribution and acknowledge at the outset that Senator Lundy has worked in a very straight-down-the-line, bipartisan way on this issue. I appreciate the way that she has handled it on behalf of the Labor Party in her role as senator for the ACT.

As Senator Lundy has acknowledged, this issue has touched over a thousand families in the ACT, but it has also touched so many more people, because everyone in Canberra knows someone who owns or lives in a Mr Fluffy home. Many people have formerly owned Mr Fluffy homes and many have been through them over the years. This is something that has a very significant impact in the ACT on many people but, of course, primarily and most devastatingly on those who have lived in these homes for a long time and those who have raised children in these homes. So, as we debate this bill and see it passing through the Senate today, we acknowledge that significant impact and trauma—which is impossible to undo, regardless of anything that is done either in this place or in the ACT assembly.

This has been playing out over many years but particularly for the last year or so. Over 1,000 households in Canberra and also, of course, in neighbouring Queanbeyan have had to deal with the trauma, uncertainty, stress and anguish of learning that their homes had Mr Fluffy insulation installed during the sixties and seventies and that traces of asbestos remained on their properties. This news was devastating for these Canberrans. Not only were their houses unsafe now and unsuitable to live in; they had been that way for a long time, in many cases, without their knowledge. Words cannot express how stressful such a discovery must be—to know that this has been the case for, perhaps, many years for people in homes where they have raised children, built a career and hosted a countless number of guests. These were years when asbestos materials in your home were putting at serious risk your health and also the health of those who came through your home. These Canberrans who owned or lived in these homes come from all walks of life. They are families with young children, older couples and young people entering the housing market for the first time. They are people from all over our city and people of a range of financial means. They are all people who have had to deal with the fact that the place they call home has put them at risk.

The residents and owners of Mr Fluffy homes know that the presence of asbestos is not just a matter of the financial value of their homes, as important as that is. This is a matter of their health. This is a matter of the health of themselves and their families. As the impact statement tabled by Senator Lundy and me in this place last week showed, these are people who, every time they come down with an illness or feel an illness coming on, may wonder if this might be because of what they have been exposed to—loose-fill asbestos in their homes here in Canberra. Indeed, some of the affected residents already wonder if illnesses they are dealing with today might have been caused or worsened by their choice of home.

This is not a tragedy of their own making. This is not something that any reasonable homeowner could have known. They were told that, in fact, their homes were safe. So due diligence would not have helped them because, unfortunately, all of the information simply was not available to people as they purchased these homes and moved into them. There a couple of stories from the impact statements I want to share. Mr and Mrs W talk about how they were looking forward to shortly having their home paid off but now potentially need to start from scratch. They talk about how they want to stay—they love the location—but there is stigma of being in a 'pariah' home. They go on: 'How many people have we put at risk of contracting asbestos related illness?' As Senator Lundy touched on, that guilt—which is not fair or reasonable but is real—is there for these homeowners and residents. We all feel that, don't we, when we may have inadvertently had our children put at risk or others put at risk. I say to them that it is not their fault. It is not because of their actions. People can only act on the best information that they have, and I know that these people did.

Ellen from Charnwood said: 'We are now effectively bankrupt and living in a home that it is a danger to our children. I have lost countless nights of sleep thinking about this and have suffered horrible anxiety. I feel sick at the thought of having friends around, particularly if they have children.' Again, we see those themes coming through. There are the financial issues and the financial fears. What is very important and what can be dealt with, to the maximum extent possible, through this process and through what the ACT government is doing are the financial issues. That is a significant part of the burden—there is no doubt about it.

Some of the detail of that, of course, is still being worked through. It is not easy. We all get approached at the various functions that we go to in the ACT by Fluffy residents and owners. They talk about outstanding issues, such as certain goods that they cannot take out of their homes and how that will be compensated for. There are all sorts of things that are deemed unsafe like soft-fibre couches and the like that simply cannot be taken out. That is an ongoing issue. Obviously, the financial burden is one significant part—it is a massive part, but it is not the only part, as we have discussed. As we deal with these processes, we will be broadly dealing with many of these financial issues. But, obviously, those emotional issues and those health issues are a different question again and cannot easily be dealt with. The health issues, of course, are what have forced the drastic action—the demolition of these homes. Those are a couple of the stories, but there are many more. I encourage people to read through that impact statement. You can turn to almost any page of that document to find stories just like those which I have just mentioned—filled with uncertainty and sadness, yet also resilience in the face of the tough hand they have been dealt.

There is, I think, some hope here as well. Today, we are discussing and debating a way forward. Hopefully, it is a very positive way forward in the midst of great difficulty. People can have the opportunity to get on with their lives and in many cases take the buyback from the ACT government and move on. That is not a perfect circumstance—it is a far-from-perfect circumstance for many, and there will be much discussion and negotiation about what is the best for individual families and individuals—but it is a significant improvement on what could be the case if we did not have this fund, if we did not have this low-interest loan and if there were not the ACT government.

Senator Lundy acknowledged the way it has been handled in the assembly. There are all sorts of issues members of the community are raising about this, but I think I have seen from both the Chief Minister and the opposition leader a desire to actually work together to get a solution here. So, in paying tribute to the ACT government and Katy Gallagher, I also pay tribute to Jeremy Hanson and the Liberal opposition. People can play politics with big issues like this, but I have not seen any evidence of that. I have seen a desire to get solutions which I think is very positive, which is likewise the way Senator Abetz has dealt with this issue.

The bill does present a significant way forward: $750 million now, $250 million to come. It is a low-interest loan, so it is subsidised. It does allow the ACT government to maintain its credit rating, so as it borrows for other projects it does not place a significant extra burden. This of course will not fix the issue. It will not fix those other issues we have talked about—the health issues, the emotional issues, the issues around displacement—but it is a significant step forward. I join with Senator Lundy and others in this place in commending this bill to the Senate.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

First of all I indicate I certainly support the ACT Government Loan Bill 2014 and agree with the comments made by Senator Lundy and Senator Seselja. For many years I have had a particular interest in asbestos eradication. Like the families in Canberra, I have lived with asbestos most of my working life.

My real exposure to asbestos was when I became a maintenance fitter at Liddell Power Station. We had white asbestos at Liddell Power Station. We were told by management that it was not a problem, that it was only blue asbestos that was a problem. That was absolutely wrong. I remember going out to the power station. We were given a hatchet and would chip away the asbestos from around the valves. Then we would get the big pneumatic guns and start what we call 'rattling' the bolts off, and asbestos was everywhere around us. We were in an asbestos cloud. So, like those residents in Canberra, every time I feel chesty, I am very worried about whether it is a longer term problem that has been lying dormant. I can fully understand what both Senator Lundy and Senator Seselja have been saying about the individuals. This is a terrible, terrible thing.

For anyone who is listening: I hope you never have to go through this. If you ever have to watch a friend or a relative die of mesothelioma, it is one of the worst diseases you can ever contract. It is a horrible death. It is a terrible death. A good mate of mine, Brian Fraser, worked with asbestos for a short period of time in the shipyards in Brisbane and some 30 years later ended up with mesothelioma. He was a bit, healthy, strapping Irishman. He was about six foot one, about 18 stone and died just a bag of bones, full of cancer. It is just an awful thing. So, when we hear about the economic impacts of asbestos on people, we should always remember that the health issues are far away more devastating than any economic impact could be. But I am very pleased that we have bipartisan support to deal with the economic impacts.

I do not want to politicise this, but I want to make what I think is a valid and reasonable point. For many years my union, the AMWU, campaigned to try to get some regulation and control over the use of asbestos in this country. We fought for a ban on asbestos for many years, and it was opposed in some parts because some people still thought this was the miracle fibre. This was the fibre that was going to do all these good things. We still had them in brake pads coming into this country only a few years ago There is asbestos everywhere in this country still.

I want to take the opportunity to say: if you are worried about asbestos being anywhere, do not go near it. Take the precautions. It is in my view one of the areas where you can strongly argue that this is not about red tape. This is about people's safety. It is about making sure people can safely go about their lives and their work. We have set up the Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency, and that agency in my view should be strongly supported. It should have bipartisan support. Until every fibre of asbestos is gone from this country, that agency is needed. It is not red tape; it is an appropriate thing for this government to do.

I do not want to leave this on the basis of an argument that there might be some differences. I fully support what Senator Seselja has said. I fully support what Senator Lundy has said. This is a very, very important issue for the health and safety of all Australians. If you are worried about asbestos, do not touch anything. Do not try to remove asbestos on your own, because no-one deserves to die with mesothelioma. As someone said to me, it is like pouring cement into your lungs. You die with your lungs being crushed.

I will leave my comments at that and strongly support the bill. I thank the government for their indulgence on this issue.

Scott Ryan (Victoria, Liberal Party, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank senators for their contribution, particularly Senator Lundy and Senator Seselja, who represent the ACT, to which this bill applies, and Senator Cameron for his personal reflections. I know many Australians could make similar reflections about members of their family, particularly those involved in certain trades over past decades. I commend the bill to the Senate.

Question agreed to.

Bill read a second time.