Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Defence, Senator Johnston, to questions without notice asked by Senators Conroy and Lines today relating to the manufacture of the next fleet of Australian submarines and to Australian Defence Force terms and conditions.

The answers given by the minister, Senator Johnson, today to Senator Conroy clearly elucidated the situation we find ourselves in with this minister. He has no idea that the Prime Minister's office is backgrounding, is working at odds with the defence minister's portfolio. What is very, very clear is that 84 per cent of South Australians support the next generation of submarines to be built locally. We are almost approaching the majority of South Australian Liberal members of parliament supporting the next generation being built in Adelaide and honouring that promise that the minister made on that ill-fated day. On 8 May 2013 the then opposition defence minister said:

We will deliver those submarines from right here at ASC in South Australia. The Coalition today is committed to building 12 new submarines here in Adelaide.

And from that date onwards—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He didn't say that, did he?

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

absolutely—there has been prevarication, there has been an attempt to discredit the workforce in a totally despicable manner, there has been the leaking of the AWD, the Air Warfare Destroyer audit report prior to it being tabled in parliament. The minister had backgrounded the Financial Review; leaked it to discredit the good, loyal, hard-working workforce in South Australia.

What is happening now is there is an increasing tide of public opinion in Adelaide that is wholly and solely against what is happening. The minister's performance in all of that is totally reprehensible. It is really looking—

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Incongruous.

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

almost 'incongregous' and stupid; thank you, Senator Sterle.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Incongruous!

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Incongruous; thank you, Senator Macdonald. I note Senator Macdonald actually made a useful contribution during the week—

Sue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, he did not!

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, he did! He said that ministers should listen to the backbench and vice versa, that there should be a flow of information one way and a flow of information the other way. That is clearly not what is happening in the Minister of Defence's area. There is no information coming out of the Minister of Defence's portfolio or office that is supported by many South Australians. Many South Australian Liberal members of parliament are as adamant as I, as Senator McEwen, as Senator Wong, as Amanda Rishworth, as Kate Ellis and Nick Champion—all of the Labor side is adamant that this is a once and for all opportunity to build on the defence state of South Australia.

Independent reports are saying that there could be as much as $250 billion of investment and tens of thousands of jobs over the next 40 years. In the next 40 years in South Australia: $250 billion of investment and tens of thousands of jobs. We know very clearly that this minister, having made a promise, has backed away. He has white-anted, he has double talked and he has come out with his infamous canoe statement last week—that is, he would not trust ASC to build a canoe. That drove shivers down the whole economy of South Australia. All of the small business community that relies on a trained and employed manufacturing sector in defence thought, 'Oh my goodness; is this really the Liberal Party taking this sort of a stand?'

It is probably time, as even all of the Liberal senators and members of parliament turn on their defence minister, that he walk the plank. That is it: walk the plank; over the side; deep six; out of the way. Put someone in the job who will actually look after defence, look after the national interests of Australia. If submarines are the spear upon which the defence of our great country lies, then we need better than this minister. We need a minister who is going to stand up for defence requirements, stand up for Australia's defence, stand up to the Prime Minister's office and have a complete competitive tender for this very important piece of vital defence infrastructure. Have a competitive tender that will be open and aboveboard and allow, most importantly, ASC and South Australian defence industries to compete on a fair and equitable basis with everyone else in the world who wants to do it. It really is time that this bloke walked the plank.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If the Labor Party is so concerned about the construction of submarines in South Australia, and they really want to know who ought to be looked at closely as to the situation we currently find ourselves in, then the first thing they should do is look in the mirror. There they would see a facsimile of Nero, fiddling while Rome burnt. The reality is that the decision around the construction of submarines for the Australian Navy should have been made two years ago.

But what did the Australian Labor Party do about the construction of submarines? They took $20 million out of the budget.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You have been in power for nearly 18 months.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, Senator Conroy, and we are continuing to clean up the mess that you left behind—we are continuing to clean up the mess that the Labor Party left behind on the economy, we are continuing to clean up the mess that the Labor Party left behind in respect of employment and we are continuing to clean up the mess that the Labor Party left behind with respect to the Defence Force. Ten per cent of Australian defence industry jobs disappeared on the Labor Party's watch. They are now crying crocodile tears.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You're in charge.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, we are now in charge, Senator Conroy, and I am happy to take your—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, do something!

Sue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Not in Victoria!

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Somebody ought to put the lid back on the chip packet—please, so I can say what I would like to say. They might have a chance to say what they would like to say later. The Labor Party clearly dropped the ball. We have heard numerous times in this chamber that when we came to government there was nothing in the plan for submarines, and we have had to start to build that plan. That is what we are working on. We had a plan, which the Labor Party failed to do two years ago. As I said earlier, this decision should have been made two years ago, a year before we came to government. So we find ourselves in the situation of having to clean up another mess that the Labor Party left. Defence employment fell by 10 per cent because of budget cuts and deferrals. That is what we are doing.

What is the Labor Party's legacy in respect of submarines? They took $20 billion out of the budget for the future submarine program. Where was the South Australian Labor government during that period of time? In fact, where were the South Australian Labor members during that period of time? We did not hear a word from them at that point in time. Because of the complete failure of the Labor Party to act we have been left with having to pick up after them and having to develop a plan. We have to build a program and then we have to implement it.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are going to give it to Japan.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy continues to make allegations, continues to make things up, without any real evidence. We saw even the leader of the Labor Party this afternoon in question time asking questions about rumours. The basis of the Labor Party's questions in question time now is rumours. That is how shallow the Labor Party are. They completely failed in government. They completely failed manufacturing in government. There were 140,000 jobs lost when the Labor Party were in government. Some 140,000 manufacturing jobs disappeared under the Labor Party and yet, when we are trying to turn the economy around, when we are trying to turn around the mess that was left, they even voted against measures that they proposed themselves. They even voted against saving measures for the budget that they proposed themselves.

Sue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You can't even turn a canoe around.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Lines, you did not even leave a canoe. You did not even leave that much as far as a plan was concerned for the Australian submarine project. (Time expired)

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was listening intently to Senator Colbeck's rabble. I would like to add my comments to the debate on the answers that were given by Senator Johnston. I think the answers were rather extraordinary. Two words come to mind when I think of Senator Johnston's performance and not just on the ADF pay cut. The two words are: anus horribilis. Mind you, that could go for the whole Abbott government this year.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Annus.

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry, what a slip of the tongue—annus horribilis. Seriously, what a shocking situation when our defence forces not only are denied a pay rise to stay in line with the cost of living but effectively are getting a pay cut. When the minister was asked about what he has done to lobby the Prime Minister or the cabinet to overturn this ridiculous situation they have found themselves in, he said he was not even there. He was not even in the room. He was not even at the press conference.

What I can take away from this is that the minister is way out of his depth—he is completely out of his depth. But I am not the only one who thinks that. I want to quote an article from The Australian by Dennis Shanahan. No-one on this side could ever accuse Dennis Shanahan of being a mad leftie. In fact, my opinion of Mr Shanahan is that he is the cheer squad leader for the government. From wonderful questioning by my mate Senator Gallacher a couple of weeks ago of the minister about the ASC in Adelaide, he came out with the shocking line that will always haunt his political career—and even once he has gone: that he would not trust them to build a canoe. Dennis Shanahan said on 27 November:

But the Prime Minister should act quickly, shift Johnston and cauterise not just the wound the Defence Minister has opened but wider self-inflicted wounds of political management.

There is no argument there. He goes on to say in the same article:

There is good reason for Abbott's loyalty because Johnston, as Defence Minister, is prepared to accept a good deal of prime ministerial military enthusiasm and interference, although unthinking loyalty coupled with stubbornness is not a luxury that leaders can afford.

These are very potent words. The Minister for Defence, the man who is entrusted with our military procurement, absolutely trashed our brand. He trashed the ASC brand in Adelaide. He absolutely infuriated the 3,000-plus workforce—those hardworking men and women, with skills that are not picked out of a Weeties box; they are skills that are gained after years and years on the job, and through TAFEs and the like—which, Mr Deputy President, you can relate to, because you yourself are a tradesman.

For the Minister for Defence to come out and say—here in our parliament—and to have it broadcast on every bugle, both print and electronic—what the minister thinks of our defence capability is absolutely abhorrent. It is even more abhorrent that the Prime Minister can sit there and accept that ridiculous statement made by a senior minister, and not even give an apology—not even a simple, 'I really got that wrong; I absolutely apologise to all those hardworking men and women in South Australia.' No, no—we had weasel words. What was the phrase? It was just some rhetorical flourish. Goodness me, Mr Acting Deputy President, how can Australians have faith in not only this incompetent defence minister but also the Prime Minister? While we are on some of the shocking situations that we had this year: this year will go down as the year of broken promises. For a prime minister to go out there and to absolutely break every promise and every commitment that he had made—'no cuts to health, no cuts to education, no cuts to the pension, no cuts to the ABC, no cuts to the SBS'—that is just a continuation of lies and broken promises. And then, when our defence minister smacks 3,000 hardworking Australians in South Australia right in the gob, and makes that absolutely disgraceful statement—'we would not trust them to build a canoe'—our Prime Minister applauds him. He just sits there and protects him—disgraceful. (Time expired)

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In this building, there would not be a person more qualified than Senator Johnston to lead of the Department of Defence at the current time. Senator Johnston is a man of impeccable knowledge and commitment. He is a person who over many years has made it his business to know exactly what is happening and when it is happening. His knowledge of matters defence is absolutely incredible. I am proud to say that we on this side of the chamber have a number of serving and ex-serving senior Army officers—and members will know that Senator Linda Reynolds, my colleague here, is a serving brigadier in the Army—and, notwithstanding the fact that we have a number of serving and former Army officers, I still say without fear of challenge that Senator Johnston knows his stuff and knows as much, and even more, about defence matters than most others in this place.

In his contribution to this debate, Senator Gallacher said something about listening to the backbench. I have to say, Mr Deputy President, that on our side of the chamber our ministers and our leaders actually do listen to the backbench; hence, I am delighted to see today that the Prime Minister has announced that the Remuneration Tribunal's decision to take away certain entitlements of defence force personnel has been actioned. That is because he listened to people, like me, who raised it—and I cannot tell you what happens at our party room meetings but certainly, in our Senate party room a couple of weeks ago, and in our joint party room last week, these were issues which were raised by me and by others. I am pleased to say that the minister and the Prime Minister actually listened to backbenchers on this side—and we are able to have an opinion, unlike Labor senators, who were famously described by one of their colleagues as 'lobotomised zombies' who were only there to rubberstamp the then Prime Minister's decisions—that was Ms Gillard. So not only is Senator Johnston good, but he also listens to advice from people who understand the defence forces and from people who, I might say, represent the electorates containing most of Australia's defence forces.

I would like to go on to the issue of shipbuilding: can I just start by saying that we would have a little bit more interest in what the Labor Party said, Mr Deputy President, if they had any credibility. We had an Antarctic ice-breaking ship that needed replacement—did Labor get Australian shipbuilding yards to build the replacement? Did they get ASC to quote for that replacement icebreaker to be used in the Antarctic? No; of course, they had one built overseas. That shows, more than anything, that the words of the Labor Party should be treated with the greatest caution, and it shows the absolute insincerity and hypocrisy of the Labor Party in all of this debate over the building of submarines. Do not listen to what they say; have a look at what they did, when they were in the position of having to have a ship replaced.

The Labor Party have run up a debt which is approaching $267 billion. Just for anyone listening, let me put that into perspective: that means that we Australians are paying a billion dollars a month in interest on Labor's debt. That is why this government has had to take action to try and address the budget deficit which the Labor Party has left. And because of that, money that we would like to spend in many aspects of the federal budget simply cannot be afforded. We have to rein back spending from everywhere. Politicians have had their salaries frozen for at least 12 months, because everybody has to play their part in trying to get the budget back in order. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to take note of answers to questions to the Minister for Defence, Senator Johnston, on Defence Force pay. This is a minister who just cannot get it right. Whether it is submarines or defence force pay, he has clearly shown by his actions and his words that he has no respect for workers. It does not matter whether they are civilians or enlisted personnel, this is a minister who has no respect for workers at all. He has shown that over the last couple of weeks, because he has been absolutely incapable of moving on the harsh, mean-spirited pay offer to Australian Defence Force personnel. Indeed, in this chamber this afternoon government senators have confirmed that Senator Johnston did not stick up for ADF personnel and that mean-spirited pay offer. He obviously was saying to the Prime Minister: 'It is a good deal; let's stitch it up,' because we have heard government senators here today claiming that it was five other coalition MPs who changed the Prime Minister's mind. Where was the defence minister on this? He was completely missing in action. I am not sure whether he is a barnacle or what he is, but it is certainly time that he walked the plank, because he has shown himself to be absolutely incapable of acting responsibly, whether it is on submarines or whether it is defence pay.

The Prime Minister has been no better on this issue. He talks about service and honouring your country in relation to ADF staff, but he obviously does not understand these notions. If he did, if he had just a skerrick of respect for the ADF, then he would not have shown such disrespect with his paltry pay offer of 1.5 per cent a year—less than inflation. That is less than the cost of living. It is like Defence personnel are paying the Prime Minister and the Defence Force for the honour of being enlisted. Is that what we have got to with this pay offer? On the one hand—as Mr Shorten, our leader, says—the Prime Minister wants this 'Team Australia' notion, but on the other he does not want to reward and recognise the efforts of our ADF personnel.

Today we have seen a partial backdown, but it is not a backdown. Let us be very clear about what has happened today. The Prime Minister has simply realised: 'Oops! I have gone too far.' That he has done so is not because of the work of five coalition MPs but because of the overwhelming disgust shown by ordinary Australians, who feel that the ADF deserve more. Now he has given them back the conditions which he was so willing and so quick to take off them; he has simply given that back. So let us see him move some more today on that paltry pay offer.

It is a shame that, along with the response from the Australian people to this disgraceful ADF offer, it took the loss of the Victorian election by the Liberals and the Nationals to get them to finally face some home truths. To face the fact that so much of what they do is harsh and cruel, and that this offer—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Where was that election?

Sue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In Victoria. They lost. In fact, the Nationals have almost disappeared as a party there, if I believe what I am reading in the media. This is one of their harshest moves. It is a cowardly attack on the ADF who are not able to speak out for themselves, not able to do anything but accept what has been given to them. Of course this cowardly attack by the Abbott government is an attempt to bully the public service, who are also bargaining with the government. The government has told them: 'Do not expect to get anything more than what Defence has got.' The Prime Minister is on the record as saying that. What the Prime Minister knows—we have seen the attack today from Senator Abetz—is that public servants have a union. We have now seen the biggest industrial action ballot in this country get up with overwhelming support from 95 per cent of union members, who say they will take industrial action to get a decent pay. They cannot be bullied like the ADF can. They cannot be disrespected. I am sure the Australian public will say that public servants are hardworking and deserving of a better deal. It is time that the Abbott government turned the ship around on ADF pay, sacked the minister and gave them a better deal.

Question agreed to.