Kim Carr Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science
2:29 pm
My question is to the Minister for Defence, Senator Johnston. I remind the minister that he justified his decision to exclude Australian shipbuilders from tendering to build Australia's new supply ships by saying, 'Construction of these ships is simply beyond Australian industry.' Is the minister aware that the Senate committee inquiry into the future of the naval shipbuilding industry has heard evidence that shipyards in Brisbane and Adelaide could handle the build and fit-out of the ships, with minimal new investment? Will the minister now apologise to the Australian shipbuilding industry and the thousands of workers employed in it for his incorrect, outrageous and derogatory statement?
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Honourable Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
David Johnston WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence
2:30 pm
Unlike the learned senator, I have actually read the submissions—
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Honourable Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
David Johnston WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence
I cannot hear myself think.
Honourable senators interjecting—
Stephen Parry President
Yes, pause the clock. Senator Edwards and Senator Wong!
Senator Cameron, Senator Carr has asked a question and he is waiting for a response. Minister, you have the call.
David Johnston WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence
Having read the submissions, can I say Forgacs' statement to the Senate inquiry was that it had not previously as a company undertaken the construction of a ship of the size of 27,000 tonnes. The last time it built a ship was the Aurora Australis, 6,500 tonnes, a quarter of the size. Now, when they made their submission—if the senator was honest, and of course there is no honesty here—
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Certainly not from you.
David Johnston WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence
with, in the gallery, the people who control their preselections—Forgacs told the inquiry—
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
You just lie all the time.
Eric Abetz Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment
He has to withdraw that. Mr President—
Stephen Parry President
Yes, Senator Cameron, you will withdraw that, please.
A government senator: What about Senator Wong?
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Mr President, I—
Stephen Parry President
I did not hear Senator Wong. I will take Senator Wong first. I did not hear Senator Wong, but if she feels she needs to withdraw—
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Well, I have been asked to withdraw, so I withdraw.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
Mr President, I am not sure it is unparliamentary to say 'the Liberal Party lied'.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
The Liberal Party lied.
Stephen Parry President
Senator Cameron, you are now repeating the miscarriage in the first place and you did say—
Eric Abetz Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment
You did not say that. He did not say that. He said 'you lie'.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
No, you don't tell me what I said.
Stephen Parry President
Order, Senator Abetz! Senator Cameron, I will determine who said what. I heard what you said and I would appreciate you withdrawing it.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
The Liberal Party did lie.
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
I withdraw.
David Johnston WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence
Forgacs also built the HMAS Tobruk,at 5,791 tonnes. Their submission says that 'with appropriate site development' they could have, at their graving dock, built a 27,000-tonne vessel—four times larger, 'with appropriate site development' of several billion dollars. What we inherited with respect to the air warfare destroyer was a failed third attempt to remediate the program. Hundreds of millions of dollars over budget, it was two years late. With an international benchmark of 60 man-hours per tonne, we set the benchmark at 80 man-hours per tonne—and what were they doing? One hundred and fifty man-hours per tonne. Some of these blocks had to be reworked up to four times.
I owe it, we owe it, to the taxpayer to get this right. There are eight ships for Adelaide if we can get this right. So, instead of bleating, get onto your mates up there and tell them to lift their productivity. It is that simple.
Kim Carr Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science
2:33 pm
Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given that the Australian industry was precluded from bidding, I refer the minister to his statement before the election to the ABC in Newcastle: 'I get really fired up when I find us giving away our manufacturing base in the Defence space to foreign manufacturers, it's just not on.' Will the minister now apologise to the hardworking men and women of the shipbuilding industry whose jobs will be sent to Spain and South Korea— (Time expired)
David Johnston WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence
2:34 pm
HMAS Success and HMAS Sirius are both very old and tired vessels. We are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to sustain and maintain both of them. As Warren King, the head of the DMO, told the inquiry, the decision was there to be made in 2008—and guess what? They did not take it. They squibbed it. So we are in urgent need of being able to replenish our ships at sea, our major fleet units, with proper resupply ships. And what we have to do when Success is in maintenance? We have to sail our frigates back to Darwin to refuel them. This is because the Labor Party take no responsibility. Not only did they rip $16 billion out of the defence budget; they did not make any decisions with respect to shipbuilding. Even Martin Hamilton-Smith criticised his own Premier— (Time expired)
Kim Carr Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science
2:35 pm
Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I remind the minister, once again, of his statement before the election, while standing in front of ASC in Adelaide:
We will deliver those submarines from right here at ASC in South Australia.
… … …
The Coalition today is committed to building 12 new submarines here in Adelaide …
Will the minister resign if he breaks his pre-election promise to build the new submarines in Australia?
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Honourable Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Honourable Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
David Johnston WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence
What I can tell the senator is that we will deliver an orderly transition between Collins and SEA 1000 new submarines. We will do that. We will also—if we can remediate the program—deliver, to South Australia and shipbuilding around Australia, 11 vessels. That is what we are setting out to do and that is what the Minister for Finance and I are working at day in, day out to try and achieve.
Kim Carr Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science
Will you resign if you break your promise?
David Johnston WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence
What we inherited from you was nothing more or less than an utter, disgraceful mess.