Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Veterans' Affairs. I refer to the minister's pre-election comments in June 2013 about military pensions. I quote:

CPI has not been a measure of cost- of-living for at least 15 years. Aged pensioners don’t have their index assessed in this way so they are falling further and further behind. It’s basically unfair where they’re at and they deserve a fair go and we’re going to give it to them.

Minister, why then did an official from the Department of Veterans' Affairs confirm at Senate estimates—with you sitting next to them—that the government's first budget slashed $65.1 million from the pensions of 280,000 veterans, war widows and orphans of veterans by using CPI-only indexation? How is this $65 million saving to the government not a loss to the weekly income of veterans and their dependants?

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Conroy for his question, which does give me the opportunity to talk about indexation as requested. Senator Conroy will be aware—and I presume this is the basis for his question—of the cross-portfolio decision made in relation to indexation measures which will take place in September of 2017.

Senator Conroy will also be aware that, in the run-up to the last election, I went to many veterans' forums around the nation and said, in relation to the DFRDB/DFRB superannuation scheme, that I believe there should be expanded indexation measures. As Senator Conroy will also be equally aware, in this chamber I introduced a bill to achieve that. Senator Conroy needs to be reminded—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on relevance: the minister is now seeking to avoid answering the question relevantly because he is now referring to DFRB retirement payments. My question was very specifically about the pensions of the 280,000 veterans and their dependants, who will now receive only CPI indexation, not the schemes he is now talking about.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. The minister has been explaining the aspects of the question. He has still 40 seconds left. He is continuing his answer. The minister is relevant.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. At the start of my answer, I indicated there had been some cross-portfolio changes. I assume that was the basis on which the question was asked. I would return if I may to the events in this chamber when Senator Conroy and the Australian Labor Party voted to keep CPI as the only measure for the DFRDB. I am happy to table the Senate Hansard but where— (Time expired)

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Before the election, the Prime Minister told the 2012 RSL national conference:

If it's inadequate just to lift Centrelink pensions by the Consumer Price Index, it's even less fair to apply solely that index to those who have risked their lives for our country. Loyalty goes both ways.

Why then has the Prime Minister broken this promise and implemented CPI-only indexation for the pensions of 280,000 veterans and their dependants—war widows, orphans?

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think it is always best in a public forum like this to accurately reflect comments that have been made. Senator Conroy knows full well that the Prime Minister was referring to the DFRDB/DFRB indexation measure, which we are going to address. I will go back to where I was before. Senator Conroy, in three separate votes in relation to the DFRDB indexation, voted to keep CPI as the—

Senator Conroy interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, your leader is trying to raise a point of order.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on relevance: the minister is talking about a different scheme. He was not asked about that scheme. He was asked very specifically about the pensions of 280,000 veterans, war widows and orphans and the government's decision to index by CPI. He is now talking about recipients of an entirely different scheme. That cannot possibly be directly relevant under the standing orders.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ronaldson commenced his answer by responding to a quote given by Senator Conroy and that was directly relevant to Senator Conroy's question. He still has 30 seconds remaining. I call the minister.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The absolute irony and hypocrisy! The Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, who led the charge in this chamber as finance minister, called our decision to make these changes 'unaffordable' and 'a sham'. This is the very person who took the point of order in relation to indexation. It is here in black and white that the Australian Labor Party— (Time expired)

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Given the government's decision to index veterans' pensions to CPI only, axe the backdating of veterans' disability pensions for new recipients and scrap the seniors' supplement for some veterans, won't all of these combined measures have a disastrous impact on the cost of living for Australia's veterans?

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will go through a variety of measures. Senator Conroy asked me about indexation. Look at page 238 of the former government's 2009-10 budget measures.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senators on my left, you have your Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate waiting to raise a point of order.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on relevance: the question specifically related to decisions of this government about the cost of living for veterans. We appreciate the history lesson from the minister but we would like to get an answer to this particular question.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Moore. The minister has only been going for 15 seconds. He has 75 per cent of his time left to answer the question.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. In the short time left to me, I invite the Australian Labor Party to do something very constructive for Australian veterans over the next 24 hours, and that is vote for the abolition of the carbon tax so veterans can get the benefit of this—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, a point of order—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Pause the clock. Before Senator Conroy raises a point of order—Senator Ronaldson, I do draw your attention to the question.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much. In response to the cost of living question, and in relation to family tax benefit A, where the indexation was reduced to CPI—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Can I just give this quote, please?

This measure will help reduce the long term cost to the budget of a substantial and growing expenditure, contributing to the return of the budget to surplus and the reduction of net debt.

The Australian Labor Party supporting CPI and indeed in changing that measure— (Time expired)

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.