Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to Senator Abetz, the Minister representing the Prime Minister. I refer to the decision to stand aside the Assistant Treasurer, Senator Sinodinos. When did the Prime Minister become aware that, as a director of Australian Water Holdings, Senator Sinodinos stood to gain a personal benefit of $10 million to $20 million if the company was awarded a contract for a public-private partnership by the New South Wales government?

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Minister for Veterans’ Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What about Michael Williamson with the printing contracts?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I am waiting to call the minister to answer the question. Senator Ronaldson, if you wish to debate it, the time is after question time. Senator Abetz.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I understand the situation, all these events occurred prior to Senator Sinodinos becoming a senator and a minister and—listen carefully—before Mr Abbott became Prime Minister. If we want to trawl through everybody's history and what the Prime Minister may or may not have known about somebody well before or some time in the past, this person's—

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Resume your seat, Senator Abetz. There is a point of order.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My point of order is direct relevance. The question was quite clear: when did the Prime Minister become aware of certain issues. If we could have an answer to that, if you could direct the minister to answer the question—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is debating. There is no point of order. The minister has one minute and twenty-six seconds remaining.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can I simply say to those opposite that, if there are any friendships, any relationships, between honourable senators in this place and members in the House of Representatives, why don't you get the people over there to ask the question of the Prime Minister, because he might actually be able to tell you what was or was not in his mind.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is that how you treat the Senate?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

But, if the Prime Minister wants to add to anything that I have said in my answer, I will of course report back to the chamber in due course.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remind the minister that he is responsible to this chamber to answer on behalf of the Prime Minister—and I ask: when did the Prime Minister become aware that, at the same time that Senator Sinodinos held office in Australian Water Holdings and the Liberal Party, the company was bundling up its donations to the Liberal Party and charging them back to Sydney Water as expenses?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. Once again, Senator Carr is peddling allegations as absolute facts. These are all matters that need to be, and will be, thoroughly tested by ICAC—and so be it. And that is the way that these matters should be dealt with. Indeed, Senator Wong has herself said that matters of this nature should be dealt with by the proper authority—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. It is relevance: the question is about the Prime Minister's state of awareness of this issue associated with the donations from AWH to the Liberal Party. If the senator cannot answer—if he is not aware—I accept that he may wish to take it on notice, but we are simply asking: when did the Prime Minister become aware of the facts as outlined by Senator Carr?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. I have been listening to the minister's response. I believe the minister is addressing the question.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. What Senator Wong has not understood throughout this whole matter is that, at the moment, there are a whole range of assertions being made—assertions that ICAC are testing by hearing evidence from a range of people. And I am sure, in her former life, Senator Wong would have known that sometimes a case sounds very strong until the other side is heard. What I would simply say to her is: take a deep breath, and allow ICAC to undertake its task. And we will then see where the cards fall.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask a further supplementary question: when did the Prime Minister become aware that the Obeid family owned 30 per cent of Australian Water Holdings at the same time that Senator Sinodinos was chair of the company?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I dare say, if the Prime Minister ever became aware of that percentage holding to which Senator Carr refers—I emphasise 'if'—I reckon it was long after Senator Conroy—and who was that other fellow at the ski lodge?—

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Assistant Minister for Immigration and Border Protection) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Burke!

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

and Mr Burke were at the Obeid ski lodge. So, to come in spinner with me and try to suggest that we on this side somehow knew about the intricate workings of the Obeid family, when you and your party are so thoroughly enmeshed with them—

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Wait a minute, Senator Moore. Order on my right and on my left! Senator Fierravanti-Wells, Senator Cormann, Senator Back. Senator Wong, commenting is disorderly, as you are well aware.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It was a friendly conversation!

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do not care how friendly or otherwise the commenting was across the chamber. I remind honourable senators: friendly commenting or otherwise is out of order during question time.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. My point of order is again on relevance. The specific question was about the knowledge of the Prime Minister and the timing of that knowledge. If the minister and Leader of the Government in the Senate would like to, he can take that on notice—but at least make some attempt to answer the question.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, part of the difficulty for the Labor Party in this place today and yesterday has been the way they have framed their questions—yesterday, you had to rule them out of order. What I am saying is that there is an assertion in this question that has never been made out. But one thing we do know is that the Labor Party knows about the intricacies— (Time expired)