Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
2:00 pm
My question is to the Assistant Treasurer, Senator Sinodinos. I refer to the Assistant Treasurer's ministerial responsibilities, which include business law and practice, and to the statement of ministerial standards which demand that in their private conduct ministers must uphold the law and demonstrate high standards of personal integrity. Was the Assistant Treasurer appointed a director of Australian Water Holdings at the same time he was Treasurer of the New South Wales Liberal Party? Was the true purpose of his appointment to open lines of communication with the Liberal Party?
Eric Abetz Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment
On a point of order, all those questions clearly relate to matters prior to Senator Sinodinos—
Opposition senators interjecting—
John Hogg President
Order! Senator Abetz, resume your seat. You are entitled to be heard in silence.
Honourable senators interjecting—
When there is silence on both sides we will proceed—both sides!
Eric Abetz Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment
Thank you, Mr President. My point of order is this: all the questions raised by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate clearly relate to matters prior to Mr Sinodinos becoming Senator Sinodinos let alone becoming Minister Sinodinos and, as a result, they clearly do not apply or have no relationship to his ministerial responsibilities. Therefore, the question should be ruled out of order.
Claire Moore Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women
Mr President, on the point of order, the question relates specifically to issues to do with Minister Sinodinos's own portfolio, the portfolio he holds now, and behaviours that are covered currently by his portfolio responsibilities. Secondly, the minister has previously made a statement in this chamber on questions of a similar kind which he as referred to a number of times in answers that he has given. So specifically in this case it relates to issues about which now he has responsibility—business law and practice, corporate financial services and security laws and these processes.
Honourable senators interjecting—
John Hogg President
Order! So that everyone is clear: a question must be answered only insofar as it relates to ministerial responsibility—in other words, the public affairs with which the minister is officially connected, proceedings pending in parliament or any matter of administration for which the minister is responsible in a personal representative capacity. However, an answer may provide clarification of statements made by ministers, even if the statements are not clearly within their ministerial responsibility. The keyword is 'ministerial responsibility'. So I rule: on the question that has been asked insofar as it goes to the ministerial responsibility of the minister, the minister needs to respond to that part of the question which directly relates to ministerial responsibility—
Government senators interjecting—
Order! And I call the Assistant Treasurer, Senator Sinodinos.
Arthur Sinodinos NSW, Liberal Party, Assistant Treasurer
2:04 pm
The only statement I can make on this in this chamber is that there is a commission of inquiry underway and I will be attending as a witness—and watch this space. I will be vindicated in terms of what I have said to the Senate in my statement on 28 February. If I need any tutoring in how to appear before ICAC I can ask Greg Combet or Senator Cameron.
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Honourable Senators:
Honourable senators interjecting—
Doug Cameron NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services
And I hope he says as many good things about you as he said about me!
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
2:05 pm
Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. The minister in his answer made reference to his earlier statement. In his earlier statement he declined to indicate the terms of his engagement, so I ask him: can he please advise the Senate whether he was paid $200,000-plus bonuses for less than 100 hours work a year?
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Government Senators:
Government senators interjecting—
John Hogg President
Order! On my right! Senator Wong is entitled to be heard in silence. Senator Sinodinos is entitled to hear the question, as I am so I can rule on the question.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Was he given equity of five per cent at no cost to him?
John Hogg President
That question is out of order.
I have ruled it out of order. Senator Conroy, you are now debating the issue. I have ruled it out of order.
Stephen Conroy Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
I ask you to review it after question time.
Stephen Conroy Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Review the question and make a ruling.
Mathias Cormann WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance
He is reflecting on the chair!
John Hogg President
I have made the ruling. I have made it quite clear—it is out of order. I have undertaken that I will review the question.
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
In reviewing the question, I would ask you to consider these facts: the senator gave a statement to the chamber, I acknowledge, prior to him being minister—
George Brandis Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General
On a point of order—
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Thank you, Mr President. I will finish shortly. The senator, as minister in this place, reaffirmed that statement. What I would suggest to you, Mr President, when you review your ruling, is that the principle of ministerial accountability should enable this chamber to consider whether or not—
Government senators interjecting—
John Hogg President
Order! On my right!
Senator Ronaldson interjecting—
Senator Ronaldson!
Senator Cormann interjecting—
Senator Cormann!
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Mr President, I submit to you that the principle of ministerial accountability should enable this chamber to test whether or not a statement given and subsequently re-endorsed by a minister is in fact correct. What I suggest to you is it would be an abrogation of the principles of ministerial accountability for that question not to stand.
John Hogg President
That is now debating the issue. As requested, I will review the ruling I made on that first supplementary question and I will come back to the chamber.
Honourable senators interjecting—
Order!
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
2:09 pm
Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I again refer to the minister's statement, which he has subsequently re-endorsed, and I ask him: did he stand to gain a personal benefit of $10 million to $20 million if Australian Water Holdings was awarded a contract for a public-private partnership with the New South Wales government?
Stephen Conroy Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Mr President, I rise on a point of order. The Prime Minister's ministerial code of conduct provides that in their private capacities ministers must 'uphold the laws of Australia' and demonstrate 'high standards of personal integrity'. To deny senators the opportunity to question a minister on a statement he has made in question time is to abrogate the role of the Senate.
Stephen Conroy Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
I ask you to review your ruling in the light of those facts.
John Hogg President
Order! That is a different issue. I will review the issue.
Senator Abetz, I will review the first supplementary and the second supplementary and come back to the chamber.