Senate debates

Wednesday, 5 March 2014

Questions without Notice

Qantas

2:00 pm

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

My question is to Senator Johnston, the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development. Minister, did the government make an assessment about the impact of job losses and service cuts in regional Australia before rejecting Qantas's request for assistance; and, if not, why not?

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

I say to the senator: this government is at all times concerned about regional employment in everything we do. In everything we do, we worry about regional employment. We do not just go and terminate the livelihoods of cattle farmers across the northern part of Australia and leave them to rot, not giving a fig for their livelihoods. Of course we consider regional jobs. Regional jobs are one of the most important considerations that this government has actually put on the table. I find it quite laughable that the senator would get up and ask me a question like that. Everything we do considers regional jobs.

2:01 pm

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Less than a minute—wow! He defends Australian jobs for less than one minute. Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer to the Deputy Prime Minister's concern in 2009 that changes to Qantas foreign ownership rules would 'potentially leave Australia without an airline committed to our interests'. Minister, what has changed?

2:02 pm

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

Martin Ferguson, someone who most of us hold in high regard, has told you where you should be on this issue. You should produce a level playing field and welcome this government's attempt to do so in a highly competitive commercial market. What is your solution to the Qantas situation?

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

You have had six years to deal with this issue, and what have you done? Like all of the matters that we have found underneath the carpet when we took over, you have been sitting on your hands on these important decisions. What we are putting into this parliament—

Senator Conroy interjecting

Photo of John HoggJohn Hogg (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! Senator Conroy.

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

is a commercial solution that frees up Qantas's ability to compete on a level playing field. I know the senator— (Time expired)

Opposition senators interjecting

Photo of John HoggJohn Hogg (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! On my left.

2:03 pm

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. How will a wholly foreign owned Qantas domestic airline serve the interests of regional Australia?

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting

Senator Conroy interjecting

Photo of John HoggJohn Hogg (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! Senator Johnston, resume your seat. Senator Conroy, you have asked the question of Senator Johnston.

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. I remind the senator that David Epstein, who I am sure he knows, on 5 March said:

The ALP should remember the prospective constraints the Act imposes on a company playing in an international services market. Remember is the operative word. The ALP had amendments to deal with this ready to legislate in 2009. It cannot claim consistency is on its side.

They have been caught out.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

Again, I quote:

It's puzzling when a party claiming to be progressive wants to compound out-dated interventionism with a market distorting loan guarantee specific to Qantas. This is a step down the Argentine road.

Let me tell you: we are recovering from that. We deal with the Argentinian fiscal policy that you brought to bear every day in government.

2:05 pm

Photo of Alan EgglestonAlan Eggleston (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

My question is to the Leader of the Government in the Senate and Minister for Employment, Senator Abetz. I refer to the government's economic reform agenda, including its commitment to unshackle Qantas from restrictive government regulation. Can the minister inform the Senate of any new support for the government's commitment to repeal the carbon tax, thereby allowing Qantas to operate more profitably and compete more effectively internationally?

Photo of Eric AbetzEric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | | Hansard source

I thank Senator Eggleston for the question. Today's statement by Qantas CEO Alan Joyce that the carbon tax is among the significant challenges faced by the airline reinforces why it is imperative that the Green-ALP opposition passes the carbon tax repeal legislation—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting

Photo of John HoggJohn Hogg (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! Senator Abetz, I know you wish to continue, but resume your seat because you are entitled to be heard in silence. Those on my left, if you wish to debate the answer that is being given, the time to debate answers is after three o'clock. The minister is entitled to be heard in silence.

Photo of Eric AbetzEric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | | Hansard source

Let me repeat: Qantas has said that the carbon tax is among the significant challenges being faced by Qantas as we speak. The carbon tax could be removed this afternoon if the Greens and ALP senators got over their resentment of the Australia people in their decision of 7 September and actually voted for what the Australian people want—namely, a repeal of the carbon tax.

According to Mr Joyce, Qantas is simply unable to recover the costs of the carbon tax through fare increases. So far this financial half year the carbon tax has cost $59 million—

Opposition senators interjecting

Photo of John HoggJohn Hogg (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! Senator Abetz, you should resume your seat so that you can be heard in silence. You are entitled to be heard in silence. Those on my left will stop interjecting during this answer.

Photo of Eric AbetzEric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | | Hansard source

The ALP in particular simply do not want to hear the truth: the carbon tax is hurting the airline industry to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars each year. And Mr Joyce's comments, of course, come on the back of the comments of the CEO of Virgin saying exactly the same thing. And yet the ALP-Green opposition in this place are still in denial.

Virgin Australia wants to axe the carbon tax, Qantas wants to axe the carbon tax and Australians want to axe the carbon tax. The only people that refuse to do that which is necessary are the Labor-Green opposition in this place, and they are the ones that are destroying the job opportunities of our fellow Australians.

2:08 pm

Photo of Alan EgglestonAlan Eggleston (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Will the minister explain to the Senate why unshackling Qantas from the restrictions of the Qantas Sale Act is more economically responsible than providing a debt guarantee?

Photo of Doug CameronDoug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | | Hansard source

Unshackle workers from their jobs!

Photo of Alan EgglestonAlan Eggleston (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Jobs will be preserved, Douggie!

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of John HoggJohn Hogg (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! When there is silence on both sides I will give the minister the call. The minister is entitled to be heard in silence. On both sides!

2:09 pm

Photo of Eric AbetzEric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. The government is determined to give Qantas its freedom because that is the only economically responsible course of action—recommended, in fact, by none other than David Epstein, a former Qantas executive and senior Labor adviser. Remember? A former chief of staff to Mr Rudd, a person who you might still recall.

As Mr Epstein said today:

A loan guarantee is not an assured risk; taxpayers would face a real prospect of being on the hook for billions if Qantas were as vulnerable as some have us believe. That is not in the national interest.

Not in the national interest! What is it about that statement that the Labor-Green opposition in this place do not understand? Mr Epstein's advice is that the Qantas Sale Act should go and that the ALP should not stand in the way. We say 'amen' to that.

2:10 pm

Photo of Alan EgglestonAlan Eggleston (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Will the minister explain to the Senate why it is important for all parties, including Qantas, workers and unions, to work cooperatively and constructively in the interests of securing Qantas's future growth and creating more jobs?

Photo of Eric AbetzEric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | | Hansard source

All parties should recognise the difficult situation in which Qantas and its workers find themselves and the tough decisions that lie ahead.

All parties bear the responsibility to work constructively to secure Qantas's future and the thousands of jobs which it provides here in Australia. Let me be very clear: industrial action in these circumstances is in nobody's interest. Indeed, the Qantas situation reminds me of the Tasmanian paper mill situation of two decades ago in Tasmania, where fundamental changes needed to be made. And what did the union movement do? They held a strike; they held a picket. Do you know what happened, Mr President? All the union leaders ended up in parliament and all the workers on the scrap heap of unemployment! The mill is no longer in existence; no more jobs.

But do you know what, Mr President? The union leaders are in the parliament or getting parliamentary pensions as we— (Time expired)

2:11 pm

Photo of Louise PrattLouise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Environment, Climate Change and Water) Share this | | Hansard source

My question this afternoon is to Senator Johnston, the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development. I refer to comments by the Deputy Prime Minister, who said in December last year that in amending the Qantas Sale Act the majority of Australian people and certainly the majority of people elected to the parliament at the present time—especially in the Senate—do not favour that course of action. Given that only three months have passed, what has changed?

2:12 pm

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

It might come as a surprise to the senator, but the government has changed. We believe in a hand-up and a level playing field, and not a blank cheque of a handout.

Photo of Helen KrogerHelen Kroger (Victoria, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

They don't believe it!

Photo of Louise PrattLouise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Environment, Climate Change and Water) Share this | | Hansard source

It was in December!

Photo of Penny WongPenny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

He said it was when you were in government!

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

On one—

Photo of John HoggJohn Hogg (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! Senator Johnston, resume your seat! On my left!

Senator Mason interjecting

Senator Cormann interjecting

I need silence on my right as well. On both sides!

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

What we are not going to do to a listed commercial entity is give them a bank cheque. We are going to give them a framework which is fair and equitable for them to work with. That is what they want.

We have observed what the previous government did with its drunken sailor mentality, writing cheques to just about everybody who put their hand up. Indeed, that is why SPC Ardmona had their application with the previous government for about eight months and nothing was done. They thought they could get a free ride! What Qantas needs is a level playing field, and you guys over there, through you Mr President, need to understand that that is what we are going to give them: nothing more, nothing less.

2:14 pm

Photo of Louise PrattLouise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Environment, Climate Change and Water) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer to media reports that in a coalition party room briefing yesterday the Deputy Prime Minister told Senator Boswell that there is no plan B. I ask the minister: if these changes do not pass the Senate, what is your plan B?

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of John HoggJohn Hogg (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! When there is silence on both sides we will proceed.

2:15 pm

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

It might come as a surprise to the senator—I do not expect her to understand, but this is a corporate entity that has a board of directors, a chairman and a managing director. This is a commercial entity that must comply with governance rules. The government is not going to hold their hand. The government's responsibility is to provide a legal and regulatory framework within which they can work properly in the commercial environment confronting them.

The Labor Party would have us go in, hold their hand, put our arm around them and carry them forward, at taxpayers' expense. We will not do that. The blank check of a guarantee is not on.

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of John HoggJohn Hogg (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! When there is silence on both sides. Senator Carr and Senator Cormann, if you wish to debate the issue you can leave the chamber or do it after three o'clock. Senator Pratt has the call.

2:16 pm

Photo of Louise PrattLouise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Environment, Climate Change and Water) Share this | | Hansard source

Given that the government refuses to outline alternative measures, as requested by the CEO of Qantas, will the government leave Qantas and its thousands of workers in limbo for the sake of a political stunt?

2:17 pm

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

David Epstein is right: the party over there has lost its way. I quote him again. He said:

It’s puzzling when a party claiming to be progressive wants to compound out-dated interventionism with a market distorting loan guarantee specific to Qantas. This is a step down the Argentine road.

We all know Mr Epstein's history. How is it that he can see what this is about—a commercial entity in the marketplace—yet the opposition in this place wants to start doing what it has always done when confronting every policy, and that is to write cheques. We are not in that business, and the taxpayer at long last can see some semblance of responsibility on the government benches.