Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator Carr. I refer to the promise made by Prime Minister Gillard, after she politically executed former Prime Minister Rudd, that she was going to find her way on illegal boat arrivals, because the former government had lost its way. Australians have witnessed the 103rd boat arrival since the 2010 election, taking Labor's record under Ms Gillard to 117 illegal boats carrying 6,897 people, compared with 6,552 people under Mr Rudd. Given that, under her government, the Prime Minister has taken border protection from what can only be described as bad to worse, does the minister consider that the Gillard Labor government has in fact found its way when it comes to protecting Australia's borders?

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remind senators on both sides that this is not the time to be debating the issue.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Cash for her question; it has been a while. I always welcome a question from Senator Cash. The simple fact of life is that there have been 13 boat arrivals since Mr Abbott chose to sabotage the government's program in regard to Malaysia. It is quite clear that those opposite are highly sensitive on this issue. We have had a series of numbers thrown across the chamber but they do not want to hear the facts on this matter which are that there have been 13 boat arrivals since Mr Abbott chose to wreck the government's program in regard to the Malaysian—

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I raise a point of order in relation to relevance. My question was quite a simple one. Did Mr Rudd get it right or did Ms Gillard get it right?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. The minister still has 59 seconds remaining.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. On 18 October 2011 there was SIEV 268, which had 51 people on board. On 22 October 2011 there was SIEV 269, where 15 people were on board. On 22 October—

Opposition senators interjecting—

I have been asked to describe the numbers, and I am describing the numbers in some detail. We have, of course, 13 boat arrivals since Mr Abbott chose to sabotage the approach that the government had taken in regard to the Malaysian agreement. And you have to take responsibility for that.

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, resume your seat. If senators wish to debate this issue the time is at three o'clock.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, what we have seen is that the Liberal Party are all at sea on this issue because it is quite clear that the implications of their policy position have not been understood by them so far—that every single boat that arrives will be down to Mr Abbott. (Time expired)

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer to the government's no fewer than, but potentially not limited to, five separate policies for dealing with the asylum seekers, including the processing freeze on arrivals from Sri Lanka and Afghanistan, the East Timor processing centre—my personal favourite—the Manus Island policy, the failed Malaysian people-swap policy and the fifth and latest policy of onshore processing. Given the abject failure to date of all of these policies to stop the boats, when does the government intend to find its way and restore the Howard government's policies, which actually worked?

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When there is silence we will proceed.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, the government's position on these matters is perfectly clear. What we have indicated is that the arrangements with Malaysia were an appropriate set of circumstances to prevent people drowning at sea. The Liberal opposition's approach—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, resume your seat. When the chamber has resolved that there will be silence we will proceed.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The whole question of the Liberal Party's approach to actually encouraging people to get on a leaky boat—

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, resume your seat. If we do not go beyond question 6 or 7 in question time that will not be my fault.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, the Liberal Party's position is that we should be turning the boats back by way of towing them back to sea. The Australian Navy has indicated, as recently as 19 October, that the practice of turning back boats was dangerous for naval personnel and for asylum seekers. Vice Admiral Ray Griggs said he was personally involved in two incidents— (Time expired)

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I can't believe you are back for more.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The gift that keeps on giving.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On both sides, I do not need interjections across the chamber. Order! The time for debating the issue is at the end of question time.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order! All this is doing is winding down the amount of time that is available in question time. When there is silence we will proceed. Senator Cash, you are entitled to be heard in silence.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Given Minister Bowen's continued commitment to offshore processing as the government's preferred policy option, when will the government finally admit that if it supports the coalition's amendments to the migration bill it could legislate the Prime Minister's own commitment before the last election for offshore processing only in countries that have signed the refugee convention and establish offshore processing in 148 countries, including reopening the Australian taxpayer funded processing centres on Nauru and Manus Island immediately?

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The coalition simply does not get it. Nauru does not work.

Senator Cash interjecting—

Senator Cash, you have just announced to the Senate that you believe this is a gift that keeps on giving for the opposition. 'A gift that keeps on giving'—those were the words you used, Senator Cash. You see this as a gift that keeps on giving.

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, just resume your seat. There is no need on either side for voices to be raised.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cash has said that this is 'the gift that keeps on giving'. We could not get a clearer policy position from the Liberal Party, which wants people to get on these leaky boats and to drown at sea. This is the Liberal Party policy writ large—'the gift that keeps on giving'.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Veterans' Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order about representation. Senator Cash was referring to Senator Carr when she said he is the gift that keeps on giving.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: to my hearing Senator Cash said, 'In opposition it is the gift that keeps on giving.' If she has been misrepresented in saying that, as Senator Ronaldson says, we are happy to give her leave to explain what it is she said. But if Senator Ronaldson's point of order is true it will need to be supported by Senator Cash.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. Firstly, I did not hear any comment across the chamber because of the level of noise that is in the chamber. I have said this before. It is very difficult for me to engage in all of that discussion and debate that is going on, quite wrongly according to the standing orders, because to even hear some of it is physically impossible. So I can only rule that there is no point of order at this stage. Senator Carr has 20 seconds remaining to answer the question.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cash made it very clear what the opposition position is. This is the gift that keeps on giving for the opposition. This is their policy. They want the boats to come because they see—

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I have been misrepresented by the minister. If the minister cares to review the second question that I asked today, it related to the continued failure by the former Rudd government and the current Gillard government to get this policy area right. In relation to being in opposition, we are here to point out your failures. And, yes, I stand by my words. Your failure in this important policy area is well and truly the gift that keeps on giving.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Cash, that is debating the issue. I remind honourable senators that comments across the chamber are completely disorderly. People should address the chair when they are answering questions or asking questions.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cash has to simply say she did not use those words—nothing less than that. Everyone on this side heard the words.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order, Mr President.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Wait a minute. I was going to tell Senator Carr that that is not the issue that is before the chair. I draw your attention to the question. Come to the question.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Nauru proposition has not worked, will not work. The Liberal Party's position— (Time expired)