Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Murray Darling Basin) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the person we are told is the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator Conroy.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I drew this to your attention last week: increasingly the opposition are using their questions not to state a question but to denigrate the minister to whom the question is directed. Given that I know how much the opposition are concerned about parliamentary procedures and proper behaviour during question time, I ask you to draw attention to their continued abuse of question time and the phrasing of questions.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remind all senators that the correct title should be used in the case of all honourable people in this place and the other.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Murray Darling Basin) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator Conroy. Have the confidential aspects of the NBN business plan already been identified in order to facilitate briefings offered to crossbench members and senators? Was it not essential to identify the confidential components of the business plan so as to draft the confidentiality agreements that were presented to the crossbenchers for signing?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I commiserate with Senator Birmingham for not receiving an invitation or being offered an opportunity to sign the confidentiality agreement. The question is like the chicken and the egg. If you tell me what is not in it, I might be able to tell you what is in it—by process of elimination. You are now asking me to identify by omission what could or could not have been there. It was a confidential briefing and, in the same way that those who signed the agreement are keeping the confidences, I intend to keep the confidences. The letter that Mr Quigley sent, which was publicly released last week, made it quite clear that there is a variety of information, both directly and that can be unpacked from the numbers within the NBN business case, and therefore—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! If you want to debate this, the time for it is at the end of question time. Senator Conroy, continue.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is a range of information that can be derived from the raw numbers. But, as Mr Quigley also made clear, there are ongoing contracts being negotiated by NBN Co. such that, if numbers were made public, companies could increase their prices and make higher bids against the NBN. If we complied with the idiocy of those opposite, taxpayers would pay more for the rollout of the NBN. Just a blanket, ‘Release it!’, but—

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remind senators that constant interjections are completely disorderly. I ask you to refrain. Debate across the chamber does not help question time at all—on both sides.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Quigley also made clear that there were some key decisions that were—(Time expired)

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Murray Darling Basin) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given NBN Co. and/or the government must be in full knowledge of which parts of the business plan are confidential or commercially sensitive, why will the government not at least release those aspects of the plan that are not identified as confidential or commercially sensitive? Why not give Australians the parts that can be ‘unpacked’?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just to finish my last answer: Mr Quigley also identified that there were a number of key decisions yet to be taken. These numbers reflect the view of NBN Co. but they are subject to some final decisions yet to be made by cabinet, because the ACCC is only making its final report on 30 November and those recommendations from the ACCC will have a material impact on the business case that has been presented. So let us be clear: Mr Quigley has made it absolutely clear that there is key information in the document that will potentially change if a different recommendation—(Time expired)

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Murray Darling Basin) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Far from doing everything it can to be transparent and open about the NBN, isn’t this failure to release even non-confidential aspects of the business plan a further demonstration that the government is trying to release as little information as possible as slowly as possible about this project? Why is the minister doing everything he can to keep the Australian public in the dark? Is it any wonder the public and the markets are losing confidence in the minister?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Unfortunately for Senator Birmingham, Senator Joyce has let the cat out of the bag. Senator Joyce came into the chamber and said, ‘We are not interested in the details of this; we just want to destroy the NBN, because if we destroy the NBN we destroy the government.’ He just could not help himself. Those opposite are not remotely interested in the business case and they are not remotely interested in the ACCC recommendations for the government; they are determined to do nothing more than demolish, oppose and wreck the National Broadband Network. They are on the public record not once but—when it was Senator Joyce’s contribution—twice, saying—(Time expired)

Annette Hurley (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research, Senator Carr. Can the minister explain to the Senate how the National Broadband Network will boost Australia’s innovation performance, and what is the government doing to connect Australian universities and businesses to the global innovation system?

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Hurley for her question. Occasionally you see during election campaigns some truly enlightening matters brought to public attention. I recall watching The 7.30 Report where the Leader of the Opposition indicated to his audience, ‘Again, if you’re going to get me into a technical argument, I’m going to lose it, Kerry, because I’m not a tech head.’ That was the response of the Leader of the Opposition when it came to the question of a technical understanding of the NBN. He went on to say at the people’s forum at Rooty Hill that ‘for me broadband basically is about being able to send an email, receive an email’. Further on he said ‘it’s about downloading movies, downloading songs, all that kind of thing’. But, of course, Australian business knows that the NBN is about so much more than that. If you take, for instance, the situation within the automotive industry: you have Toyota, you have Holden and you have Ford, all of which have very significant design and engineering capabilities in this country. They send very complex and very detailed digital files all around the world, and without the NBN they are at a distinct commercial and competitive disadvantage.

The NBN will allow us to be amongst the world’s best. It will allow us to maintain our competitive advantage and ensure that we keep high-skilled, high-wage jobs in Australia. But it is not just in private companies. If you look at what is happening with Australian universities and the Australian research community, you get to understand how huge an advantage the NBN will be to ensure that we are able to maintain the prosperity of this nation. We will be able to get Australian researchers and businesses to go global and to be competitive globally. That is what Australians want—they want to be able to work with the very best in the world in real time, and they want to be able to ensure that they have the capabilities to maintain living standards. (Time expired)

Annette Hurley (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Can the minister point to any major research and development investment opportunities which would have been jeopardised without NBN infrastructure?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are you auditioning to be the next minister?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They all are.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When the interjections cease, we will proceed. The minister has the call.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The National Broadband Network will boost our prospects for hosting major international scientific projects. Take, for instance, the SKA—the Square Kilometre Array—which is one of the biggest scientific projects of our time. The Square Kilometre Array is a $2.5 billion radio telescope which will expand our astronomers’ potential for discovery by some 10,000 times. Australia has been able to put a joint bid together with New Zealand to host the telescope in Western Australia, and we expect a decision by 2012. To secure this major investment, it is absolutely critical that our ICT infrastructure can support the massive data transport required for the SKA. That is why the Labor government is building that infrastructure as part of the $250 million Regional Backbone Blackspots Program, and we are putting in a crucial fibre-optic link from Perth to Geraldton to allow that to occur. That is also why we are employing businesses and building local skills. (Time expired)

Annette Hurley (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Expanding on the previous answer, can the minister also explain the importance of the NBN for collaborative research in cutting-edge industries?

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Last month I joined the Premier of Victoria, Mr John Brumby, and the Prime Minister to launch IBM’s new research and development laboratory at the University of Melbourne. Glen Boreham, IBM’s general manager in Australia and New Zealand, said:

IBM invests more in research and development than any other like company in the world—$6 billion last year ... and we spread those investment dollars across the planet—wherever we believe there are the best skills, opportunities and local support.

He wanted to thank the federal government, he said, because its:

… innovation agenda and digital economy strategy are creating an environment which is attracting investments such as the one we have announced today.

Mr Boreham specifically noted that the NBN ‘will underpin our ability to deliver solutions that reach out to regional and remote parts of the country’. (Time expired)

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary Assisting the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Communications, Broadband and the Digital Economy, Senator Conroy. Did cabinet meet this morning and did the minister brief the cabinet on the contents of the NBN business plan? Will the minister now release the business plan commensurate with his statements to the Senate last week that he wanted to brief the cabinet before publicly releasing it?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do not think it has ever been the practice of any minister or leader of the government to reveal when cabinet meets or, more importantly, what the agenda of cabinet is. So it is quite an unusual request from Senator Bernardi to—

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, a point of order: the minister told the Senate last week that the matter would be considered by cabinet today, so the basis upon which he is declining to answer the question is at variance with what he has already told the Senate.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is not a point of order; it is an issue for debate at the end of question time, should you wish to put that debating point. Senator Conroy is still only 29 seconds into the two minutes allocated for the answer. Senator Conroy has the call.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, it is not the practice—and it certainly will not be the practice—to reveal when cabinet is going to take place and, more importantly, what the agenda of cabinet is. Those opposite know that. They are seeking merely to create ongoing colour and movement because after 14 years those opposite have a broadband plan that consists of three dot points. That is all they have got, Mr President. There is no substance from those on the other side of the chamber—not in policy terms, and in political terms Senator Joyce has let the cat out of the bag. They are not interested in the business plan. They are not interested in a cost-benefit analysis; they are interested in pulling out, as he said, the card from the pack to try and make the pack collapse. They are interested in no substantive policy at all. They should be exposed for their fraudulent efforts both now and in the past in trying to pretend they have got a broadband plan. You have got a three-dot-point broadband plan. That is all they have got, Mr President. (Time expired)

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary Assisting the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given the minister’s statements last week, why has the minister now changed his story and is now relying on a letter from Mr Quigley to withhold release of the NBN business plan? Did neither the minister nor the Prime Minister realise the business plan contained, to quote Mr Quigley, ‘highly sensitive and commercial-in-confidence information’ when they were promising to release it last week? Is this not just another excuse for blocking release?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Those opposite continue to try and build the case that the business case is flawed; the business case is a problem; the business case includes rising prices. Mr Quigley’s letter on the public record makes it quite clear: the business plan reinforces that it is financially viable. On the question of prices, Mr Quigley is very straightforward: the business plan is based on decreasing prices. It is stated there in black and white. Either Mr Quigley is misleading the Australian public—

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, resume your seat. It might assist if we had silence once again.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

or those opposite are once again just clutching any furphy they can toss into the public arena where it is all removed—(Time expired)

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary Assisting the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question.Can the minister give a clear answer as to what will be released and when? Further, will the Australian public ever get to see a full and unredacted business plan for Labor’s $43 billion NBN experiment in which every single Australian has been enlisted as a compulsory shareholder or will 22 million Australians have to sign a seven-year confidentiality agreement before they get to know how their money is being spent?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That question once again clearly demonstrates that those opposite are not interested in any substance in this debate. When they were in government and Telstra was a wholly owned government enterprise, there was never a suggestion that an unredacted business plan would be released. Australia Post was under the control of those opposite for 11½ long years, and not once was there ever a suggestion that Australia Post needed to or should produce an unredacted business plan. The National Broadband Network will comply with all of the rules of the GBE requirements legislated, and that is what they will do. They will turn up and answer all of the mindless—(Time expired)