Robert Ray (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I would like to raise a delayed a point of order which I did not take in order not to disrupt question time. Earlier today, you rebuked Senator Evans for interjecting—I make no comment on that. He took a point of order and you sat him down midpoint in the point of order, which is your right under standing order 197(5), which says you may hear argumentation or not. But I have to say that is normally applied by presidents to someone who is in the middle of a frivolous point of order or is argumentative in a point of order. That is traditionally the way it has been applied in this chamber. After you sat Senator Evans down—this is my concern—you indicated to the chamber that you sat him down because he was provoking further interjections. I do not think, on reflection, that is a particularly good ruling and a good enough reason to sit someone down at midpoint. I would ask you, Mr President, to ponder on this and come back to the chamber as to whether we really want to adopt House of Representatives practice, where the presiding officers regularly sit down people taking points of order before hearing the substance of the point of order. I would ask you to reflect on that and report back to the chamber at some stage.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will reflect on that, Senator. As you may recall, there was a lot of noise in the chamber. Some senators were being particularly noisy and, most importantly, were not obeying the direction from the chair. That is the hardest part that I have to deal with here. When I call people to order, they refuse to come to order. That is why what I say at times might not be correctly stated. The fact is that I have a duty to try and maintain order in this place. If people are continually shouting across the chamber at each other, it makes my job very difficult. I will look at that situation.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a similar point of order. I do not have any difficulty with what Senator Ray suggests, because it will give you an opportunity to reflect and then come back to us and say such as you will. If you take up the suggestion put forward by Senator Ray and respond to the Senate, I hope that you will make some remarks with respect to those senators who, when you are in the process of telling them that you think there is no point of order or making some other remark in order to keep order in this place—for example, that they should cease interjecting—consistently answer you back while you are in the process of keeping that order and seem to take the approach that, should you dare put them in their place, they will consistently challenge you. There are times, and many people have been in this situation, when rulings will be made that we would rather not be made. But I do not think that any of us can accept a situation where someone consistently calls your authority into question. I invite you to make remarks with respect to that should you choose to take up Senator Ray’s offer.