Karen Grogan (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Hansard source

I'd first like to express my sympathy and my respect to Senator Price, to Senator McCarthy and to others in this chamber who have had horrendous experiences, and I would like to pay my respects and sympathy to you and your families and to all the people across this country who have experienced these hideous losses as a result of issues of alcohol abuse, family and domestic violence, and broader community violence.

There are lived experiences across this chamber akin to Senator Price, Senator McCarthy and Senator Cox, and we all believe that these situations must end. I don't think there's much dissent here from the idea that we need to stop the situation. We need to find the solutions. The difference is how we look at the solution. What we believe the solution to be is the fundamental difference that I'm hearing this chamber. As Senator McCarthy has laid out quite clearly and concisely this morning, the planning for the sunset date of the previous Stronger Futures legislation was not undertaken. That is not to apportion blame, but it does shine a light on some of the issues that I have seen firsthand having worked in the NT for 10 years, including two years in Alice Springs. The structures we have in place are insufficient to address the deep community challenges and the deep community loss and pain.

But where do we go from here? We can stand and yell at each other across the chamber. We can pick up our own individual interest areas, be that age of criminal responsibility, prisons or whatever else, and they all have value. But they are all symptoms. They are not the root cause, and that's where we need to go. That's what we need to deal with in this situation.

We need to heed the stories and the experiences that we have heard across this chamber and the stories and the experiences that we have heard over the last number of weeks, number of years and, I would say, number of decades. This crisis is right now, but it is a crisis that keeps rearing its head year after year, decade after decade. We need better solutions because the First Nations people of Alice Springs and across the whole of this country deserve so much more. They deserve greater respect. They deserve better solutions. They deserve a greater say in how issues are dealt with and how solutions are found. We must do better.

I stand here as a non-Indigenous person, as a person who heeds the call of the Uluru Statement from the Heart to walk alongside. That is what I seeks to do: to walk alongside. I'm an ally, I'm a supporter and I have some awareness. I spent a long time living and working in the Northern Territory, including a couple of years in Alice Springs working at the Central Land Council. I also worked for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Service, and I was the last-standing operations manager of CDEP before the federal government got rid of it.. For all the reasons that were given, and we hear them time and time again, I can assure you that when the program ended, yes, there were some rorts and there were some challenges, but the vast majority of that program was doing some fantastic things in community, with community, for community.

This is the situation that I have experienced. I come from a research and policy background. I see it, and have been seeing it for decades: the solutions are designed in Canberra or in some glass house somewhere, and guess what? They don't work on the ground because they are not designed in a manner that is going to work on the ground—unless you have the input of the people whom the situation affects directly. From my experience in research, in policy and in social services programs, I've seen stuff that works and I've seen stuff which doesn't. The fundamental piece, in my opinion and in the opinion of many other social science, research and policy people, is working with community to start where the problem starts, to start with the issues start and not to look at the symptoms. And that's what we're looking at here: alcohol is a symptom; abuse is a symptom. These things are terrible, terrible symptoms, but that's what they are. We need to be mindful that in addressing any issue we understand what the root cause of it is. Only then can we chart a pathway to the answer.

In my opinion, the federal government legislating alcohol bans is not the way. We have seen an intervention in the Northern Territory previously, and I know the pain and the suffering that went on as part of that intervention. Interfering in people's lives, leaping in from a great height to tell people how to live their lives—it's not the answer. It might help you with some symptoms along the way for a short time, but it's not the answer. The answer is to understand the problem and to talk with the local community. That is what we need to do. As Senator McCarthy spoke so deeply about this morning, it requires a long-term approach with community. In my experience with short-term commitments, a couple of years here or there—what we need is generational change of policy and generational change of intervention of a different kind that works with community.

I do appreciate the Senator's deep experience and concern for the Northern Territory, and Alice Springs in particular. I really do. In everything, we need to focus on how those families are coping. We need to stem the violence. We need to stop all the horrendous situations that we're hearing about. There needs to be a two-pronged approach—there needs to be the here and now, of course, but there needs to be a long-term solution. I agree that we have to keep putting women and children first—we need to put their safety first and the family's safety first. I don't disagree with the problems we're facing, and we must fix them, but this bill and federal legislation are not necessary. The Northern Territory is already bringing forward legislation in their parliament so that the town councils and their communities revert to dry zones. The Northern Territory recently made several announcements regarding alcohol restrictions. They've demonstrated that they are taking responsibility, and they have the power to act because they are the responsible layer of government for this particular intervention of alcohol bans.

With some of those bans, it's going back to pretty much how it was before. Even Senator Price told the ABC on Monday that this bill was pretty much a carbon copy of what the Northern Territory is proposing. So it does beg the question: why are we doing it if they're already doing it? If it's a carbon copy then it's probably not needed. If they are the responsible layer of government then it is for them to do it. The role of the Commonwealth on this particular issue is surely only when that fails, and that's not the case. The federal parliament overriding the Territory's ability to legislate for itself is not the cooperative environment that we want in this country. It is not how we wish to legislate—over the top of those bodies that are actually responsible for various issues. I see the departmental officials shaking their heads, which might be a little inappropriate in this chamber. I believe that federal legislation will only disempower local people. They need to have their voices heard and they need to be negotiated with and engaged with in a deep, meaningful and understanding way.

This bill from Senator Price is largely the same as the stronger futures legislation. Apart from modern drafting changes, there are two differences, from what we can see: the delegation of power from the minister to an agency secretary or member of the senior executive, and the inclusion of a review by a Senate committee at 12 months and then every three years after that. But alcohol is only part of the solution. The Northern Territory and Australian governments are both working on the underlying causes of this community unrest, which, as I say, we need to get past. Obviously, we need to deal with the consequences—we need to deal with the issues that are bubbling up—but we also need to dig down to the root causes so that we can have a genuine and meaningful response that will not just continue intervention and bans but actually start to build a stronger community and get a better answer.

Senator Price's bill refers to an NT licensing commission, which is a body that doesn't exist. That may well be just an error in drafting. It makes the minister responsible for approving alcohol management plans that the communities develop. This approach would ultimately mean that the decisions on alcohol management plans are made in Canberra and not in the communities of the Northern Territory. This is in contrast to the approach announced by the Northern Territory. They are proposing that community alcohol plans be approved by the independent NT Director of Liquor Licensing. They would then be voted on by the communities themselves. Surely having the communities involved is what is critical? To further disempower these communities only leaves us at risk of further disempowerment. We need community solutions. We need the right people in the right place to find the right answers. I believe the Voice to Parliament will put us on a pathway to those better solutions—to a place where we can look to making amends for the hundreds of years of oppression, to freeing up the system to enable the voice of First Nations people to be truly heard. 'Intervention', 'overseeing', 'oversight'—all of these words bounce around. Fundamentally, the conversation needs to be had with the community. The conversation needs to be deeper than just what happened yesterday or the day before or what has happened in the last 12 months. The conversation needs to go deeper. We need to ask the questions; we need to find the answers. We need to empower the community and we need to walk alongside that community to find the solutions.

Debate interrupted.