Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Hansard source

That is not rubbish. Let me tell you, Senator Ferguson, that you were not in those Senate estimates hearings and, quite frankly, I am not sure you know what is going on with this program at all. I will be very pleased if you can come up with one example. Do not come and say, ‘Oh, yes, the Australian wrote something today,’ if that is the best you can do, because I do not think that is true.

Senator Bernardi said he was proudly at the Australian National University Liberal Club meeting the other day and a woman, who happened to be at the ANU Liberal Club—a member of the Liberal Party, I suspect—‘exposed’ all these rorts. Again, there were no examples of anything. It is about trying to build some sort of scandalous image of what is going on. Start giving some examples! If there are examples of fraud or corruption, who don’t you tell somebody about them? Quite frankly, in the biggest spending program that we have ever seen in this country to rejuvenate the education system, whereby every school in this country—and in every electorate—is getting a new building, if there is an example of any form of mismanagement, say so. Do you know what? There is a complaints mechanism in the department. And do you know what else? Every school principal has to sign off on the projects. They have to sign off on the plans. We have this nonsense that somehow people are getting buildings they did not want and people are getting bad value for money on things they did not want—when the school principal has to sign off these things. Quite frankly, Senator, the claims you make have no veracity, you do not come with any evidence, you do not come with any examples and the only school you are able to name was the school at Strahan, which Senator Colbeck named, and that was not about any rorting and was not about mismanagement. It is just that they did not get as much money as they would have liked, because they did not meet the program criteria, when the program criteria are there for everyone to see. It is all transparent and open. So really it is about saying, ‘We would have liked some more money.’

Another example which I found quite extraordinary, and it was the best example, was the one Senator Bernardi used about the outdoor coverage of a sandpit. He said, ‘Do you know what? A smaller covering for a sandpit that was only done a year or so ago only cost seven-tenths of what this one cost.’ If it were smaller and if it were a couple of years ago, one would expect that probably it did only cost seven-tenths, or 70 per cent, of what this one cost. There is a terrific example for you! There is massive mismanagement! After a couple of years for a bigger covering it actually cost 30 per cent more—well, go figure. You are wasting the Senate’s time with this ridiculous matter of public importance. You come here with two speakers that cannot provide an example of any rorts or mismanagement and just make these ridiculous claims which the evidence simply does not back up. None of the evidence backs them up.

Senator Colbeck wanted to tell us that this has the capacity to be a big problem. That can apply to anything. Is it a big problem? He wants to say it is a big problem, but if it is a big problem, please tell us why. Tell us why it is a big problem. It is a big problem because he wants it to be a problem. That is what he wants. He wants it to be a problem. If there are any examples in this massive building project process that we have undertaken in every school across the country, tell us.

I am not saying that every project has been managed to perfection. Anyone would be a fool to suggest that. But if you have any evidence that there is a problem, why don’t you go through and do the right thing? You say, ‘We’ve got many complaints.’ What are they; who is making them and why haven’t they complained to the right officials in the department so that they can be addressed?

I notice no-one on the education committee seems to be here running the case you are running—because they sat through the estimates hearings and they know the process. They know the tests that are being applied by the department at every level through this process. The evidence at Senate estimates is that in every case when these concerns were raised—whether they were raised through the Australian or through other forms—every one was resolved to everyone’s satisfaction. In nearly every case there was a basic misunderstanding of what people were supposed to get.

I get around too. I see the schools with the buildings that are going up and I see very happy principals and very happy school communities. I see very happy teachers, happy students and happy parents, because this is the biggest revolution in the education system that we are engaging upon in this country. I probably will not have time to get to the great things we are doing with computers, national curriculums and many other reforms.