Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Fisheries, Forestry and Conservation) Share this | Hansard source

Can I say that Senator Ian Macdonald, who contributed in this debate as well, did a very good job in laying the groundwork for what we are now doing as a government.

We have been told by those on the other side that we should be doing more with the Indonesians. Yes, we should, and that is a good idea. We will always try to do more, but I cannot help but reflect, even in this area of relations with Indonesia. When Mr Howard was first running for the prime ministership in 1996, what was the great throwaway line of the Labor Party? It was that if Mr Howard were to become Prime Minister, we would not be able to have a good relationship with Indonesia. The relationship would be hopeless. Yet today at question time and all this week we have been told that our relationship with Indonesia is so good that we seem to do everything that Indonesia wants. The Labor Party cannot have it both ways on these issues.

I think Senator Bartlett asked why we do not have an agreement with Indonesia under UNCLOS—the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. If two neighbouring countries have an agreement in relation to imprisonment of illegal fishers then you can imprison them. The simple reason that we do not have an agreement is that the Indonesians will not agree. But, as Senator Ian Macdonald indicated, when he was undertaking those discussions with Indonesia, Indonesia revealed that they have in their territorial zone penalties for imprisonment. That is what this bill now does: it imposes the potential for incarceration, subject to judicial discretion, on those caught in the 12 nautical mile zone.

The suggestion was made by one senator—I think it may have been Senator Webber—of what would have happened if we had acted sooner. I simply say that no Labor Party senator has ever suggested that we ought to have this sort of legislation. It is a genuine government initiative, which I am delighted that Labor supports. But it is a bit rich to come in here and say that we should have acted sooner when no Labor senator made the suggestion before we as a government put it on the table.

Senator Bartlett then went on to talk about refugees. I will not dwell on that in any length other than to say that I reject his assertions in relation to the government’s policies. This evening we are dealing with the scourge of illegal fishing.

Can I move to Senator Siewert’s speech. ‘Just throwing people into jail is not the answer’ was one of her comments. I agree. What you need is a comprehensive package, and that is exactly what we are implementing. This is just part of the comprehensive package.

The suggestion was that we should try to target the Mr Bigs. Seizing their assets is exactly what hurts the Mr Bigs, because they are the ones who fund these boats. Sure, there are poor villagers onboard but, if you capture enough of their vessels, the economic viability of the total operation becomes so prejudiced that hopefully they will say that it is no longer economically viable, and as a result they will stay out of our waters. We also intend, as Senator Ian Macdonald indicated, to charge and pursue the masters and captains of the vessels. Juveniles, for example, will be sent home.

Senator Siewert asked—I think rhetorically—how many will be charged under this new law. I tell you what my hope and aspiration is: none, because I would like to think that nobody would ever enter our waters illegally. I think that is a bit of a naive hope, but how many people actually get that close to our shores remains to be seen. I think it will be a major deterrent because there have been reports of Indonesian fishers, in particular, seeking to enter our waters and coming on land or into our inland river system overnight and then going back out during the day. Now, if they are caught close to shore, they will face that extra penalty, and hopefully that will be an extra disincentive for them to come close to shore. What are the impacts going to be? It is hard to tell. I would like to think that this will be a deterrent to Indonesian fishers taking risks close to our shores.

I cannot help myself but mention that Senator Siewert was trying to take issue with the term ‘fisherman’. She is so politically correct that she wants the non-gender based term. But, of course, that is where people in this place and around Australia who are the politically correct mania police, as I call them, just fall over themselves—