Ted O'Brien (Fairfax, Liberal Party, Shadow Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question goes to the Prime Minister. Given the RBA's decision to keep interest rates on hold, millions of Australian mortgage holders will start wondering whether interest rates are as low as they'll ever go under this government. The Treasurer's spending spree is at the heart of the problem. Government spending is running four times faster than the economy. Given that the Treasurer repeatedly refuses to take responsibility for this, Prime Minister, will you take responsibility?

Hon. Members:

Honourable members interjecting—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! No, we're not having this. The Leader of the House?

Mr Tony Burke (Watson, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, there are lots of things in the standing orders that are described as disorderly. Continuing to interject when you're out of your seat, as the member was, is described as highly disorderly, and I just draw your attention to behaviour that he was warned about yesterday.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm not particularly enamoured with people asking a question—and you know the primacy of the question that I believe it's important for every member to be heard in silence—and then having another go when they're sitting down. I don't think that's fair, and if we go down that path all the time it's going to lead to a pretty bad question time. That means the member for Fairfax is now on a warning, because of that behaviour. Everyone, we want to do things respectfully, follow the rules and follow the proper processes for everyone, so there will be no more of that behaviour. I thank the Leader of the House for raising it, but I'm not particularly enamoured when people don't follow the rules.

Jim Chalmers (Rankin, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm pleased that the member for Fairfax has taken a brief break from undermining his own leader to ask me a question about the budget and about yesterday's decision by the Reserve Bank to keep interest rates on hold, partly because it gives me a welcome opportunity to point out an egregious lie that was being pushed around the gallery this morning on morning media by the Leader of the Opposition. The Leader of the Opposition said, completely untruthfully and dishonestly, that the Reserve Bank yesterday called out the government's spending when it came to the decision that they took independently at the board level. That never happened. In fact, government spending wasn't mentioned by the Reserve Bank governor yesterday. It wasn't mentioned in the board statement. The only mention was in the detailed forecasts which were released, which would downgrade their assumptions about government spending going forward.

From time to time, reluctantly, it's on us to point out the egregious lies being told by those opposite about our economy. If they were honest, they would say that the Reserve Bank governor drew no link whatsoever between the government's budget position and the decision that they took yesterday. But the governor, on earlier occasions, has made this point about the government's budget:

… we have got relatively low compared with many other countries, relatively low debt-to-GDP ratios. Our deficits aren't—we've had a couple of surpluses and the most recent deficit, in fact, is they're quite small as well.

That's what the Reserve Bank governor actually said about the government's fiscal position.

While we're on the topic of being honest about the fiscal position, if the shadow Treasurer were honest about the budget position, he would acknowledge and admit and confess that they ran nine budget deficits and we have run two budget surpluses. He would point out that he had average real spending growth at 4.1 per cent; we've got it at 1.7 per cent. He would acknowledge that there were no savings in their final budget, when inflation was absolutely galloping; we found $100 billion of savings, because we see that as part of responsible economic management. If he were honest, he would point out that debt is $188 billion lower, because of our efforts over recent years, than it was under the trajectory that those opposite left us with, and our efforts to get the Liberal debt down mean that Australians are saving tens of billions of dollars in debt interest. So I welcome the question from the shadow Treasurer. I hope he asks me a number of questions about this, because the contrast between our responsible economic management and the mess that they left us couldn't be clearer.

Sussan Ley (Farrer, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order, Mr Speaker: in his answer, the Treasurer accused the opposition of—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, resume your seat. I'll give you the call, but you've got to state what the standing order is. You can't just say you didn't like the answer.

Sussan Ley (Farrer, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It goes to order in the House. In his answer, the Treasurer accused the opposition of telling lies. It has never been in order to say that. I would ask you—

Honourable members interjecting—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Leader of the House?

Mr Tony Burke (Watson, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There's a whole lot of precedent in characterising an individual as a liar, which was not done. In referring to a comment—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You can resume your seat, and then you will get the call.

You'll be able to make that point when the leader finishes. You will get the call.

Honourable members interjecting—

Order! Just take a breath. I'm going to hear from the Leader of the House.

Mr Tony Burke (Watson, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

To use the term with respect to a comment is different. Secondly, the Practice makes clear that the point of order is meant to be taken immediately, not at a later moment.

Government members interjecting—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, members on my right! The manager is entitled to take his point of order now.

Alex Hawke (Mitchell, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, no, no. You are hopeless. You are hopeless and a liar, lying to the Australian people. If 'lying' is in order then 'lying' is in order, and this is a liar. That's what we're debating here, and I'm happy to debate it.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The manager, resume your seat for a moment.

Honourable members interjecting—

No, just hang on. Hang on, everyone. The Leader of the House raised his point of order. I was giving you the courtesy to raise your point of order. I want you to do it again and state what your point of order is rather than just starting to—

Honourable members interjecting—

Hang on. I'm going to ask you to restrain and to state your point of order.

Alex Hawke (Mitchell, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Unparliamentary terms—it's well trodden. The Treasurer, on several occasions in his answer, as the leader said, used the word 'lie'. It is well trodden in this House. He accused her directly of being a liar, and when that was raised, as the Leader of the House knows, it's unparliamentary language and it should be withdrawn.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Okay. We'll get through this. The Leader of the House.

Mr Tony Burke (Watson, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a separate point of order, the comments that were made, in the earlier moment when I stood up, by the Manager of Opposition Business are seriously disorderly under every definition, including his own. He knows it. He only did it for the purpose of disrupting the House. He did it for the deliberate purpose of being disorderly.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Okay, this is how we're going to handle this, because I don't want anyone called a liar and I don't want anyone to be accused of lying. The Practice is crystal clear on that. The Treasurer didn't accuse an individual. He called the party—

Honourable members interjecting—

Order! I didn't hear him accuse an individual of being a liar. But I'm going to get you both to withdraw, because what you did was completely unacceptable.

Alex Hawke (Mitchell, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Industry and Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the manager. I'm going to get the Treasurer to withdraw.

Jim Chalmers (Rankin, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Speaker. I withdraw.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And I'm going to remind everyone that that word is fraught with danger. Please don't use it. Use other words. Now we're going to move on.