House debates Questions without Notice
Aboriginal And Torres Strait Islander Voice
Julian Leeser Berowra, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians
3:05 pm
My question is to the Prime Minister. Prime Minister, will the Voice be justiciable?
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Hon. Members:
Honourable members interjecting—
Milton Dick Speaker
Order! I'm going to ask the member for Berowra to ask that question again. I didn't hear it.
Honourable members interjecting—
Order! The Prime Minister will just pause for a moment. I want to hear the question.
Julian Leeser Berowra, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians
My question is to the Prime Minister. Prime Minister, will the Voice be justiciable?
Milton Dick Speaker
The Deputy Leader of the Opposition will not interject.
She will cease interjecting immediately. I'll hear from the Leader of the House.
Mr Tony Burke Watson, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Mr Speaker, standing order 98(d) expressly says what questioners must not ask ministers. There is nothing in this question other than a legal opinion. The entire question is a legal opinion. There's nothing else in it at all. If ever there was a question that just completely offends the prohibition in standing order 98, this is it.
Opposition members interjecting—
Milton Dick Speaker
Order! Members on my left! I will hear from the Leader of the Opposition.
Peter Dutton Dickson, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition
This question is completely in order. It goes to the design feature of the Voice. It goes to public commentary that the Prime Minister has been making freely in relation to this very question, and he should be able to answer the question in this parliament.
Milton Dick Speaker
The question is against standing orders, as the Leader of the House has clearly indicated.
Opposition members interjecting—
Order! But I will give the member for Berowra an opportunity to rephrase the question so it complies with standing orders. If it doesn't, it will be ruled out of order.
Julian Leeser Berowra, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians
My question is to the Prime Minister. Is it the government's policy intention that the Voice be justiciable?
Milton Dick Speaker
That question is in order as it regards a policy pertaining to the government. I give the Prime Minister the call.
Anthony Albanese Grayndler, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister
3:08 pm
I'm not a lawyer, but Robert French is a pretty good one. He was the Chief Justice of Australia between 2008 and 2017. This is what he had to say about the words that have been put forward:
The power of the parliament is expanded under the revised paragraph three to cover laws with respect to matters relating to the Voice generally. Thus, the parliament can make laws about such things as the duties, if any, of the executive government in relation to any representation and the legal effect of representations to the government.
That was Justice French. That comment was made on 25 March. Very clearly—
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Opposition Members:
Opposition members interjecting—
Milton Dick Speaker
Members on my left, I cannot hear what the Prime Minister is saying. Cease interjecting immediately!
Anthony Albanese Grayndler, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister
Ken Hayne, a former justice of the High Court of Australia, is someone who was chosen by those opposite to conduct royal commissions. Ken Hayne is reported as saying:
A lot of people have spent a long time trying to think 'well, what possible quirks, [legal] minefields, could there be?' I think there are none.
And another prominent lawyer, called Julian Leeser, said this: 'From the perspective of a constitutional conservative, this proposal I think has two distinct merits. First, the proposal is designed in such a way that it doesn't empower the High Court to strike down acts of parliament—
Peter Dutton Dickson, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition
Mr Speaker---
Anthony Albanese Grayndler, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister
Oh, come one!
Milton Dick Speaker
Order! The Minister for Home Affairs and the minister for infrastructure. I will hear from the Leader of the Opposition on a point of order.
Peter Dutton Dickson, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition
It's on relevance. The question was very specific. It was about the government's policy. Citing examples and past legal commentary on previous models et cetera, is not relevant to what is a very tight question. The Prime Minister of our country should be able to answer the most basic questions about the government's public policy on a very major proposal—
Milton Dick Speaker
Resume your seat. The question was phrased in a way that it was about the government's policy. He is referring to that. I will bring him back to the question. He's entitled to add to his answer regarding evidence or information.
Anthony Albanese Grayndler, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister
I'm amazed that those opposite would disagree—
Peter Dutton Dickson, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition
Just answer the question, for goodness sake!
Milton Dick Speaker
Order! The Leader of the Opposition will cease interjecting.
Honourable members interjecting—
Anthony Albanese Grayndler, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister
The anger! It just bubbles up!
Milton Dick Speaker
Members on my right will cease interjecting so I can hear the Prime Minister.
Anthony Albanese Grayndler, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister
He said this: 'First, the proposal is designed in such a way that it doesn't empower the High Court to strike down acts of the parliament. There'll be no new avenue to challenge laws in the High Court.' He went on to say: 'Secondly, the proposal is designed to ensure that better policy-making occurs in the Indigenous policy space.' I will tell you what: I agree with everything in terms of the government's intent. It is exactly the same as the intent that was shown by the member for Berowra over a long period of time—exactly the same. That's why, on so many occasions, he said, for example, 'I think one of the particularly good aspects— (Time expired)
Opposition members interjecting—
Milton Dick Speaker
Order! You do not need to yell out 'Time!' If anyone does that again, they'll be warned. It is highly disorderly.
The Deputy Leader of the Opposition will cease interjecting. One more time and she will be warned. When the House comes to order, I want to hear from the member for Reid.