House debates

Wednesday, 2 June 2021

Private Members' Business

Mental Health

4:46 pm

Photo of Susan TemplemanSusan Templeman (Macquarie, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

I move:

That this House:

(1) notes with dismay that suicide is the leading cause of death among Australians aged 15 to 24 years;

(2) recognises that young people's decision to access mental health care is fragile, and if they do not have a positive experience they may not make another attempt to seek help;

(3) further notes that youth-friendly mental health services are not available uniformly to young people; and

(4) calls on the Government to:

(a) increase access to effective mental health services and supports for young people across all stages of mental ill-health; and

(b) build a youth mental health workforce to meet the current and future needs.

I have been compelled to move this motion as a desperate plea to the Morrison government to provide a headspace for the Hawkesbury. We've needed one for years. I committed to one at the last election and we've seen the benefit of the bipartisan commitment to one in Katoomba, even though that's just a smaller, satellite headspace. It has made a real difference. But I have been urging since 2013 that the Hawkesbury needs its own dedicated space for young people to seek help with their mental health.

The Hawkesbury has seen a number of recent tragic suicides by young men and boys. These highlight the really desperate need for there to be ready access to mental health services at an early stage, and then able to support people as they have their journey, hopefully, to good mental health. One of the things I've done is to issue a petition inviting people to share their comments and views about why they think we need a headspace in the Hawkesbury. I want to share some of the comments from those people—already, hundreds of people have signed the petition and given their reasons why.

These are some of the things that people say, and I want to start with comments made by people who are practitioners in this area. I'll start with a comment from the manager of the headspace in Katoomba, who is very much encouraging and supporting the establishment of one in the Hawkesbury. They said: 'Katoomba headspace has been blown away by the demand that it's faced, and that's not a good thing. We always knew there was an unreported demand in the Blue Mountains, but it has come through and the same is going to happen in the Hawkesbury, where I'm confident that we will get a headspace.' Really, this motion is saying to the government: 'Please do it because it's the right thing to do. Please don't make this about politics. Please do this now, when it is so urgently needed.'

Here is an example of the sorts of comments that educators give me. I will just call this person Kristin. She's an educator and she deals on a daily basis with families in distress with no local support services to turn to when they have children experiencing a range of mental health issues. She says: 'Waiting lists for psychologists are months long. The impact on both children and parents is dramatic and long term. The increase in mental health issues over the past two years is phenomenal, and our community is in desperate need of immediate help.' You might wonder why that is so in the past two years. Obviously, drought affected many parts of the Hawkesbury. We had bushfires beyond the scale that anyone has seen. We then had flood, then COVID, and then a second flood—the largest we've had in 30 years. These are some of the reasons why people are really at the end of their tether.

Another person who signed the petition said: 'My wife works in mental health for Nepean and Blue Mountains and said this is really, really needed. You've got to listen to the people at the coalface.' Another said: 'I work at Hawkesbury hospital and agree. We really need a headspace in the area.' A chaplain from a local high school said: 'I work at a high school as a chaplain and do various other youth work. This is a necessity for the area.' Another person commented: 'As someone who has worked with young people for over 15 years, I'm well aware of the difficulties the current generation is facing. I work with adolescents in the Hawkesbury and see their struggles on a daily basis, particularly over the last 18 months. It's absolutely vital that this community receives support and that intervention is put in place to assist in making a positive difference for our children in the Hawkesbury. It is absolutely long overdue and a necessity for current and future generations.' I have comments from psychologists and from people involved in the consumer side of the hospital. I have dozens of comments from parents, saying things like, 'I've been looking for something like this for my 16-year-old,'; 'I have a daughter fighting every day to feel normal in a world that feels so strange'; 'My son had PTSD and struggled with depression'; and 'We desperately need a local headspace. The closest one is in Penrith which is so hard to get to.'

I'm going to finish with the words of a young woman who says that mental health issues were an issue for her. She says: 'I didn't want to travel 30 minutes to Penrith, but I had no choice. I knew I would be in a fragile state driving home.' We need a headspace in the Hawkesbury now.

Photo of Trent ZimmermanTrent Zimmerman (North Sydney, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Is the motion seconded?

Photo of Shayne NeumannShayne Neumann (Blair, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Defence Personnel) Share this | | Hansard source

I second the motion and reserve my right to speak.

4:52 pm

Photo of Bert Van ManenBert Van Manen (Forde, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

I'd like to thank the member for Macquarie for bringing this motion to the House because it gives me the opportunity to talk about the terrific work the government is doing in the youth mental health space. The government recognises that this is a critical issue. We know that the COVID pandemic and recent natural disasters have exacerbated anxiety disorders and mental health problems, sadly. Responding to a headspace survey last year, 74 per cent of young people reported that their mental health was worse since the outbreak of COVID-19 and 34 per cent reported a higher or very high levels of distress, particularly among 15- to 17-year-old men.

Seventy-five per cent of mental health issues develop before the age of 25, so we know that investing in the mental health of our young people is fundamentally important. This government has committed a record amount of funding to mental health in the recent budget. We've provided some $278.6 million to expand and enhance headspace youth mental health services. Headspace is the government's flagship program for the provision of services for young people aged 12 to 25 experiencing, or at risk of, mental illness. It was my pleasure to visit headspace at Upper Coomera recently in my electorate along with the Minister for Health and the Minister for Home Affairs. Headspace does an incredible job in providing young people with a place where they can go and receive high-quality, youth-focused, inclusive mental health services. The centre's director told me that they appreciate the additional funding that the government's budget has brought and they appreciate that we've committed funds to provide 10 new headspace centres and upgrades to several satellite sites. They also appreciate the fact that we are rolling out a round of centre expansion funds for existing centres to increase their physical capacity to help manage demand. At Upper Coomera, the initial demand has been far exceeded with the requirements of the services they need to provide. In an area that's one of the fastest growing in Australia on the northern Gold Coast, their services have been very well received across the community.

I'll also say that my late nephew was very involved in the headspace at Meadowbrook as part of the youth consultative committee and did a tremendous amount of work there and got a lot of support from headspace over the years as he struggled with mental health.

This government has committed some $111.4 million to support the take-up of group therapy sessions and the participation of family and carers in treatment. We have also committed another $54.2 million to establish child mental health and wellbeing hubs to provide multidisciplinary care and preventive services. I have the pleasure of having two of these in my electorate of Forde, one at Eagleby State School and one at Norfolk Village State School, which I opened recently. Both of these wellbeing hubs provide multidisciplinary care, and the government provided $500,000 of funding to each of those through the community development grant scheme to provide those facilities.

The facility at Eagleby and also the one at Norfolk Village State School provide high-level health services to students with complex needs and this includes assessment, diagnosis, development of management plans, intervention, supervision and professional health guidance. This means that, for these school communities, students will have onsite access to health providers and school staff will have access to adequate support. This means that parents don't have to take time off work in order to take children to appointments at hospitals that may be well distant to where they live. For many of these communities, that is a significant barrier. We know from the discussions with the community this will make it easier for students to receive the care they so desperately need and it will all add up to better care and better outcomes for these at-risk students. We know that early intervention is fundamental to better outcomes for mental health conditions, and that's why we support these initiatives.

A division having been called in the House of Representatives—

Sitting suspended from 16:56 to 17:12

5:12 pm

Photo of Helen HainesHelen Haines (Indi, Independent) Share this | | Hansard source

I thank the member for Macquarie for this important motion. When it comes to public policy, surely nothing is more important than creating change to bring hope and health to the citizens we serve and, most especially, to our youngest citizens. When I think about suicide prevention, I think about how we create, maintain and restore hope. We have heard the statistics, but we must never lose sight that each statistic represents a person with a family and a community grieving for their loss, with devastating and long-lasting effects on those left behind. I know because, like thousands of families across Australia, my family lost a beloved family member to suicide: on 27 July, 2002; he was my brother-in-law, Pete.

Suicide can affect anyone, but we know some populations are at greater risk. There is also no single reason why a person chooses to end their life. The reasons are often complex. The prevalence of people experiencing mental illness is similar across the nation—around 20 per cent—but that this is the leading cause of death for young people is devastating. Rates of self-harm and suicide increase with remoteness, suggesting there are very significant mental health issues to be addressed in rural and remote areas.

Deaths by suicide are preventable. First things first: it's about removing the unrelenting stress incurred when the basics of daily life are not a sure thing. Suicide prevention starts when you never have to worry about having a safe home; when you can get the education you want; when you have a secure job that you enjoy with fair pay; when you know that your race, gender or sexuality will not impact how you live your life; when you're confident that there's a safety net there for you when things go wrong.

Context and place are key to person centred suicide prevention, and there are some incredible local initiatives in my Indi electorate demonstrating how local people can taking action and bring hope. The fact that we have a headspace in our border region is a very real human story of an incredible family and a powerful community campaign. The Baker family from Albury lost their beautiful 15-year-old daughter, Mary, to suicide in 2011. Mary had an eating disorder, and suicide is 31 times more likely for someone with an eating disorder. Together with TheBorder Mail's End the Suicide Silence campaign, the people of the border successfully lobbied the federal government to get this facility. Annette and Stuart Baker didn't leave it there. They founded Survivors of Suicide and Friends and created the annual Winter Solstice event in Albury. This event, on 21 June, which will be live streamed this year, is an opportunity for communities to gather on the longest, and often coldest, night of the year to be entertained, enlightened and supported. Annette Baker says the Winter Solstice came out of a need to support locals who had lost a loved one to suicide and to remove the stigma associated with it. She said: 'Being the longest night of the year it can be a hard, dark time. I thought the winter solstice was a beautiful symbolic date to hold an event.' Last year, I was deeply honoured to recite a poem at the event, and this year our parliamentary colleague the Hon. Linda Burney will be the guest speaker.

Another example in my community is in Benalla, with the Live4Life whole-of-community youth suicide prevention model, which began in 2017 and is being piloted by Benalla Rural City Council. Live4Life aims to increase the mental health knowledge of all year 8 and year 11 students and their teachers, parents and carers, and to reduce barriers to seeking help for emerging or current mental health issues in young people. The community partnership includes NE Tracks LLEN, Tomorrow Today Foundation, Victoria Police, Benalla Health, Central Hume Primary Care Partnership, NESAY, NECAHMS and local community members. So far, 508 years 7 to 9 students, 282 years 10 to 12 students and 25 adults have undertaken this training. The hard work of the Benalla community has been recognised and will be bolstered soon by a mental health hub funded by the Victorian government as part of its response to the Victorian mental health royal commission. The community can take great credit for this.

These local examples show us that our efforts to prevent suicide must be informed by the insights offered by those who best understand the nature of suicidal distress. It is the knowledge of those with lived experience that must guide strategy, action and service provision to ensure a response that puts their needs at the forefront.

5:16 pm

Photo of Katie AllenKatie Allen (Higgins, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

I rise in this Chamber to speak on the member for Macquarie's motion on youth suicide. Mental health is as important as physical health. That's why the Morrison government has committed a record $2.3 billion to mental health and suicide prevention as part of the 2021 budget, the largest Australian government mental health investment in our history. I'm proud to be part of a government that has made a significant commitment to mental health, and in particular to youth mental health.

There is no denying that there's been a very rapid increase in mental illness right across the spectrum, but it does unfairly target our young. That is partly because of the unique stresses that we are facing in a modern-day world. In my first speech I spoke of how I lost my cousin to suicide. He was a young man, only 25, who lived in the regions—in fact, he lived in the member for Indi's electorate, though many years ago—and had difficulty accessing services. I was pleased to hear in the speech from the member for Indi that that has now changed, and that is because of federal government investment. My cousin came from an extended family of doctors, but unfortunately there were no age-appropriate services available where he lived. As I said in my first speech, words like 'widow' and 'orphan' describe our losses, but no word in the English language describes the loss of a child. We should never give up hope of preventing these tragedies.

Headspace is the government's flagship program for the provision of services to young people aged 12 to 25 experiencing or at risk of mental illness. Headspace is a safe and trusted entry point for young people seeking help. In 2019-20, headspace reported that 90 per cent of young people indicated being satisfied with the headspace services in their communities. This is particularly important because we know that young people's decision to access mental health care can be fragile. If they don't have a positive experience, they may not make another attempt to seek help.

Just recently I was fortunate to have the Prime Minister visit the electorate of Higgins and our neighbouring electorate to visit headspace Elsternwick, which in 2007 was the very first headspace centre to open in Australia. In meeting with counsellors and the great former Australian of the Year Professor Pat McGorry, it was wonderful to be reminded of the brilliant services that these facilities and the workers in them are providing. I congratulate Pat for all the work that he has done to get these services off the ground. He's been a tireless advocate for headspace and youth mental health.

Recognising the excellent work of headspace, we're also enhancing and expanding the network, with 10 new headspace services and five satellite services at a cost of $578 million, bringing the total number of headspace services throughout Australia to 164. This will include a headspace in Higgins, and we're looking forward to opening a temporary residence for the headspace in Higgins later this year. I'm delighted, because I know we really need one. When I spoke to headspace in Elsternwick, they told me they receive many referrals from my electorate of Higgins.

Tragically, over 65,000 of our fellow Australians attempt to take their own lives each year. Around Australia, nine people die by suicide each and every day. Every year, more than 3,000 people lose their lives to suicide. It is, in fact, the leading cause of death among those aged 18 to 44. That's why we are funding two youth focused initiatives to the tune of $1.8 million to provide resources, roll out targeted campaigns and develop training material. It's also why our budget includes a National Suicide Prevention Office. Currently, the government's also funding 12 suicide prevention trials right across Australia, bringing together the best strategies and models to target people at risk of suicide. We're also investing a record amount of funding into suicide prevention services. Most importantly, we're providing funding to universal aftercare. No-one is more fragile than when they've attempted suicide and been to hospital. We need to wrap services around these people on their discharge to make sure that it doesn't happen in the vulnerable, fragile time after that period.

I'm very proud to be a member of a government that recognises the need for youth mental health services and supports this as a priority. As a paediatrician and a mother, I appreciate just how important these services are to so many young Australians, and I'm passionate about being an advocate for better health outcomes four our young.

5:21 pm

Photo of Emma McBrideEmma McBride (Dobell, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health) Share this | | Hansard source

It appears the impact of COVID-19 on children and young people and their mental health and wellbeing has almost been forgotten by this government as it grapples with other problems. But we can't risk a generation of young Australians, and the risks start early in life. It's a common misconception that mental illness emerges for the first time in teenagers, but mental health struggles often begin earlier in life. Research from Beyond Blue shows that half of all mental health conditions experienced at some point in our lives will have started by 14, and three-quarters of mental health problems occur before the age of 25. As the Black Dog Institute pointed out in their children's mental health and wellbeing report, released last month, children who are struggling are at greater risk of continued problems into adolescence and adulthood, including long-term mental illness.

That leads me to the July 2020 data released by headspace, which revealed half of young people felt their study and work situation had been negatively impacted by COVID-19. Figures show that young people under the age of 25 accounted for nearly half of all job losses during the pandemic, the single largest group. This government hasn't properly supported young people during the pandemic. Many young people working in casual jobs missed out on JobKeeper, many young people under 22 years who had lost their jobs missed on youth allowance, and the recent drop in JobSeeker has left many young people struggling to get by. That's before the impact of the fourth Victorian lockdown.

ReachOut, an online mental health service for young people and their parents, had its busiest year in 2020, with 2.8 million people accessing ReachOut's youth service. Young people reported that mental health issues were exacerbated due to isolation, uncertainty and the loss of big milestones and enjoyable things in their daily lives, like getting to see their friends at school. Over 1.2 million people have accessed ReachOut's youth service site so far this year.

The National Suicide Prevention Adviser's final report found the current approach to suicide prevention misses opportunities to support people because it predominantly focuses on health service response at the point of crisis. We need to intervene earlier, when suicidal distress is developing. Young people are less likely to seek professional help than any other age group. According to Beyond Blue, only 31 per cent of young women and 13 per cent of young men with mental health problems have sought any professional help. Unfortunately, when they do, the services they finally turn to to seek help are often overwhelmed, leading to long wait times.

I'd like to share some of the experiences of one young person and her family. I'll call her Jane, and these are the words of her parents: 'Jane's first bout of suicidal ideation happened when she was nine. She couldn't cope with me being away, and she said she wanted to die in a hole or stick knives in a power point, because these are the things nine-year-olds know to speak of. Shortly after that she was diagnosed with ADHD. She'd been struggling with learning for a few years. I just didn't realise what it was. So aged nine she saw a publicly funded psychological service because CAMHS said she wasn't high risk enough. That early intervention service for eight to 12 year olds took four months for her to get into. She settled for a bit. Then last year her mood worsened. Her paediatrician added another medication and she started seeing her psychologist again. But this year she started self-harming again, cutting mostly, and then an admission for an overdose. She's lucky because I can afford private care for her at $220 a go every fortnight and she sees her GP and her paediatrician and it adds up. My friends tell my they can't even get in to see a psychologist at the moment privately or otherwise. Even when we got admitted to hospital that night, a fortnight ago, at 8 o'clock she was only seen by a psych registrar at 3 am and only because I pushed. And CAMHS were ready to leave us be, figuring she had a GP, a paediatrician and a psychologist but we needed support as a family so I made them visit us.' She goes on: 'Honestly the mental health state of kids Jane knows is depressing in itself. It's like a cancer spreading through teens. And parents are floundering because we don't know why it's so bad and how to help.'

In the week before the 2019 election the government announced $1.5 million for a new headspace for Wyong. It was posted on Minister Hunt's Facebook page on 24 August 2019. In the two years since headspace Wyong is yet to be delivered. There are so many young people living outside of big cities, in the outer suburbs and in regional Australia, who are struggling to get by. When they turn for help it's not available because of under-resourcing and long wait times. When I spoke to Minister Hunt yesterday he said headspace Wyong was the top of the list. It better be.

5:27 pm

Photo of Tim WilsonTim Wilson (Goldstein, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Like many members it's a mixture of emotions to speak on a motion such as this, because many Australians have had lives that have been touched by the sad and tragic early passing of their friends or family as a consequence of suicide. Those who may have previously watched this chamber before may know that, sadly, my brother-in-law committed suicide a few years ago. And I know that other people have had similar experiences and that's why it's so difficult to talk about this issue, but it's also the reason we need to talk about this issue. Tragically suicide is the leading cause of death in people, particularly between the ages of 15 to 24 and 25 to 44, since 2016 and 2018. We know that because of consequences of mental health problems and other pressures in people's lives increasingly people feel more fragile, and as a consequence they're taking their last resort—as what they see to be a legitimate pathway. But suicide is never legitimate pathway whatever the difficulty that people face. It's incumbent on the rest of us to do what whatever we can do to support those who are facing difficulty.

It's particularly pressing at this time because we know in the great state of Victoria, during its fourth lockdown, the pressures of mental health challenges that many Victorians are facing right now are significant. In fact, only earlier this afternoon I was chatting to a constituent and friend of mine, who wanted to talk about an unrelated matter. I asked him how things were going within the community and he talked about his wife and how she had recently, meaning in the past 24 hours, had a work colleague who had committed suicide. Of course that has an impact on her and her family, but also, of course, the broader community. Another tragic life has been needlessly lost because of the pressures that people face. I'm not seeking to blame that on anyone in particular, I'm just trying to make the observation that this is, sadly, a common occurrence that occurred during the last lockdown. A number of people that I know, including a number within the Goldstein community, and I'm sure it's replicated elsewhere—and I see other members from Victoria here as well who have confronted the reality of people within their communities. Often a person seems to do well and is not somebody who we would normally say is struggling or not coping. They may be running a successful small business or may even be a proud parent, but because they are faced with darker demons or other challenges in their lives, which may have been brought about as a consequence of the lockdown, they make a fatal choice. I know, certainly, that my husband, Ryan, had a former colleague who took that option. I also know of some local small business people who couldn't see a pathway out during a gruelling three-month lockdown and the impact that it was having on them. They couldn't see whether they were going to be able to rebuild as they watched their entire lives and the rewards of their hard work disappear in front of them.

Of course we know that there are many programs targeted specifically at supporting people who are facing mental health conditions, particularly in the context of suicide. In the Goldstein electorate we have a headspace clinic in Bentleigh, and there is one in Elsternwick, just on our border with Higgins. Headspace plays a particularly important role in getting to the community and, in particular, marginalised sections of the community to provide mental health care and support, whether it's to people of different ethnic backgrounds and culturally and linguistically diverse communities or to people of diverse sexual orientations or gender identities. Of course, amongst the general community, headspace works with local schools, local mental health practitioners and local support staff so that they can get support. We thank them every day for the important work that they do.

During the lockdown last year we actually did a video. It is on the Goldstein page and Tim Wilson MP Facebook page, so, if you need to, you can go back and have a look at it again. The video works through the local mental health supporters and shows the assistance that headspace in Bentleigh can provide to young people who are struggling at this difficult time. We may even repost that as a consequence of the present lockdown, in case people need that assistance and support.

Of course, government plays a critical role in that conversation. One of the leading contributions, particularly throughout last year's lockdown, although it has also continued until today, is the significant package that has been provided by the Morrison government to support people with mental health needs during this time. Hopefully, they won't be needed further, but it's critical that they're available for those who need them.

5:32 pm

Photo of Anthony ByrneAnthony Byrne (Holt, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

I rise to support the member for Macquarie's private members' motion on mental health, which notes that suicide is the leading cause of death amongst Australians aged 15 to 24. If you read the statistics from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, 384 young people took their own lives in 2019. Then, if you talk about suicide, 96 of those were by suicide. Deaths by suicide represented 40 per cent of all deaths in young people aged 15 to 17 and 36 per cent of all deaths in those aged between 18 to 24, which is up from approximately 25 per cent of all deaths in these age groups in 2010. You read that data and you're horrified.

I had the lived experience of this when we had a suicide cluster in the south-eastern region in 2011 and 2012. During that time, you would see on occasion, as you drove to work, the name of a young person on a bridge, or you'd see on Facebook the loss of a young person, and then another young person, and then another young person. There was a sense of community helplessness as to what to do. I think the member for Indi was talking about Albury and the work that Professor Pat McGorry had done there. He also did incredible work down in the south-eastern region of Melbourne during that time, which I think has literally saved lives. Because of what had actually happened prior to that and prior to Professor McGorry coming in, we actually called Pat in. He had been dealing with the issue of appropriate mental health facilities in Albury to deal with this suicide cluster, and we asked him to do the same thing, which he did.

He came down and, in 2012, we conducted a forum that was covered by Four Corners. They produced a program on it called 'There is No 3G in Heaven'. It featured some of the people we'd actually lost. We conducted that forum, with Pat McGorry facilitating it. It's impossible to describe to this chamber, or to anybody, being there and watching the parents of young people get up and describe the impact of the loss of their child. We had eight or nine parents get up and describe it, and describe how—one of the things we don't discuss is method; we don't want to discuss method. But there was a particularly brutal method being used by very desperate young people in 2011. It traumatised an entire community.

We lobbied for Professor McGorry to come down to the area. There is No 3G in Heaven is a very confronting program. As a result of that—and I pay great tribute to then mental health minister Mark Butler—two headspace centres were funded by the Gillard government and an early youth psychosis centre was overlayed with that. I think headspace Dandenong is in the electorate of the member for Bruce and I think headspace Narre Warren is now in the electorate of La Trobe, but it could also be in Bruce—who knows, with the redistribution. He might have two in his electorate, and that's a good thing. My electorate extends out to Cranbourne. It would be great to have a headspace in Cranbourne.

I welcome the investment from the federal government and also the state government. The Victorian state government has invested over $3 billion in mental health. I worked in the mental health space between 1994 and 1996 as chief executive officer of a mental health organisation. I remember participating in what was called the first national mental health strategy. The discussion was about young people and others not accessing mental health services because of the stigma. I would say that we still confront that as a barrier to people, particularly from non-English speaking backgrounds, accessing services. There are so many young people that I speak to who are struggling with issues but who still will not go to a health service provider, a doctor, or even a clinic or a headspace because of the perceived stigma of mental health issues in their community. So, whilst I welcome this investment, it is quite worrisome when you talk to a young woman who's got a tertiary degree but who wouldn't for the life of her go and access a service because of the stigma. Whilst I certainly welcome the member for Macquarie's motion, there is much, much more that needs to be done to confront the stigma so that we can encourage people to access these services. (Time expired)

Photo of Andrew WallaceAndrew Wallace (Fisher, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

The time allotted for this debate has expired. The debate is adjourned and the resumption of the debate will be made an order of the day for the next sitting.