Amanda Rishworth (Kingston, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Health) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise today to speak on the Veterans' Affairs Legislation (Budget and Other Measures) Bill 2016. From the outset, I acknowledge that the opposition will be supporting this legislation, because it does acknowledge the unique nature of service and does look to extend support to many who need our help. This bill gives effect to three veterans' affairs budget measures that seek to extend the eligibility for non-liability healthcare treatment, pay interim incapacity payments at 100 per cent of normal earnings, and align the cut-off age for incapacity payments to the increasing pension eligibility age.

The extension of non-liability healthcare treatment for certain conditions was indeed welcomed by the veteran's community earlier this year. Non-liability health care means that veterans are not required to demonstrate that their condition is related to their service and enables treatment for certain conditions to be separated from the compensation claims process of the Department of Veterans' Affairs. I have spoken to a number of organisations who have acknowledged the importance of non-liability health care, particularly in relation to mental health. As member may be aware, early intervention in mental health treatment can result in better outcomes for the clients. I saw firsthand in my previous job working as a psychologist the importance of early intervention.

As we know, wounds are not just physical; they can be psychological as well. Psychological injuries are just as incapacitating as physical injuries and if left untreated can lead to complex social problems. Mental health is one of the impacts of war and it is a challenging area with wideranging impacts. It is vital that support is available to current and ex-serving defence personnel as soon as it is needed. Access to appropriate services can prevent problems reaching crisis point. It is important that we are able to support our veterans before they reach this tipping point, not only for them but also for their families.

Currently, non-liability health cover for veterans covers the following conditions: post-traumatic stress disorder; depressive disorder; anxiety disorder; alcohol use disorder; substance use disorder; cancer—malignant neoplasm; and pulmonary tuberculosis. However, for these conditions, there is a qualifying period of three years continuous full-time service and a diagnosis upfront. The legislation before the House today will expand the eligibility for mental health conditions and alcohol and substance use disorders. This extension means that veterans and current serving defence personnel no longer need to have served three years continuous full-time service and will no longer have to lodge an application with a current upfront diagnosis prior to accessing treatment for mental health and alcohol and substance use disorders. Veterans will have to have only served one day of full-time service and will now have six months to obtain a diagnosis. It is estimated that these changes will affect around 67,000 additional current and former permanent members of the ADF, who will now become eligible to receive non-liability health care. In addition, this includes victims of abuse in the ADF who may have previously been excluded due to the length of their service.

The process itself has also been improved to assist applicants. These changes mean former ADF personnel will be able to access support immediately by calling or emailing the department and requesting treatment. They will then have six months to provide a diagnosis to the department. This is a highly logical change which recognises the importance of early intervention and enables people to begin treatment as soon as practical.

Mental health is a challenging and complex area with wide-reaching consequences, and I am pleased to see the government is extending this additional support to our veterans. The extension of non-liability health care has been welcomed by ex-service organisations, with a number of the ESOs highlighting to me how this has assisted and will assist their clients. While there is still a way to go in relation to mental health, with regards to access to specialist services amongst other issues, I am pleased to see this positive development in this important area.

The second significant change proposed by this legislation relates to the payment of interim incapacity payments. These amendments seek to change the amount which incapacitated ex-service personnel are paid while the actual amount of their compensation is being determined. As it stands, incapacitated ex-service personnel are paid at the national minimum wage while their claims are being processed. Understandably, this amount can be less than what they were earning at the time of the injury and, as a result, during this time that their claim is being determined, can lead to financial hardship. The amendments allow for payments to continue at 100 per cent of the ex-service personnel's normal earnings that they were receiving at the time of the injury until their claim is finalised.

For these claimants, whose circumstances have rapidly changed, the last thing they need in addition to their injury is to wonder how they will meet their financial obligations. This change will help both the claimants and their families to focus on what is next and not how they are going to get by while their application is being processed. These amendments will assist both veterans and their loved ones to focus on getting the help they need to reorient their lives.

This part of the legislation required some additional teasing out, as concerns were raised by ex-service organisations about whether there was a risk that incapacity payments would exceed the compensation payments and therefore leave individuals with an amount owing to the department. I raised these concerns with the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, and I have been assured that this is a highly unlikely situation given the types of payments that are being made. While I appreciated that the chances were unlikely, I asked the department to investigate if this had occurred previously and if, under the proposed changes, there were any times when this could have occurred. I am advised there has been no record of this having occurred since 2014 and that, if we were to review the last 12 months as though these changes were already implemented, there were no times when this would have occurred within this time period. In addition, we received assurances around the processes of recovering the interim payments from the ComSuper payout, insofar as these amounts have always been recoverable. I would like to thank both the minister's office and the department for their assistance in working through these concerns. It is because of this work that we are in a position to support this bill. I would also like to acknowledge the RSL and ADSO for their assistance in relation to this legislation. They provided feedback on the proposed changes.

The final amendment relates to the increases in age pension eligibility. This is a logical alteration which is required due to changes in the Social Security Act. This change increases the age of pension eligibility by an increment of six months starting in July 2017 and lasting until 2024, which will bring the new pension age to 67. Currently, incapacitation entitlements cease when the veteran reaches 65 years of age or, if they occurred on or after the age of 63, after a maximum of 104 weeks of incapacity payments have been made. However, with the changes to the Social Security Act, which increases the pension eligibility age, we need to amend the act to prevent a gap where injured veterans are unable to access an incapacity entitlement or the age pension.

This schedule will align the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004 to ensure that veterans are not left without income support. These changes will also automate the process and align the legislation with the defined pension age as detailed in the Social Security Act, ensuring that we are not required to make amendments every six months.

We certainly see this as a logical amendment and one that we do support. Our veterans deserve world-class care and support, and delivering this remains a priority area for Labor. We will continue to work with the government over this term of parliament to ensure that veterans and currently serving Defence personnel are supported and valued. As such, we will provide bipartisan support for this bill. I firmly believe that it is our duty to assist our veterans who have put their lives on the line, and therefore I commend the bill to the House.

Scott Buchholz (Wright, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to speak on this bill because this government continues to honour its commitment to veterans and the veteran community by recognising the unique nature of the military service. The Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Budget and Other Measures) Bill 2016 contains three measures to support veterans. It gives me great pleasure to speak to these measures and hear the support that exists in the chamber for these very well thought out and straightforward practical measures that are being introduced by government. These measures increase access to non-liability health care, allow interim incapacity payments to be paid at 100 per cent of their normal earnings and bring into line the cut-off age for incapacity payments to that of the pension age—all very simple measures.

In the 2016-17 budget, our government committed $0.2 million to these measures. It will allow the interim incapacity payments to be paid to former ADF members immediately upon discharge at the level that matches their regular salary. What was happening was that members of the Defence Force would retire or leave, and it could be a number of weeks—sometimes months—before the incapacity payments would take place through a rather rigorous assessment process. This measure allows for a more fluent transition as they move from full time into that pension period, where the payments are effective immediately. This is significant because current interim incapacity payments can only be equivalent to the national minimum wage, and when a member is discharged from the ADF there can be a period of time—sometimes for several months—before the incapacity payment amounts can be determined while superannuation entitlements are finalised. They are the measures that I spoke of before. Some members can go through financial hardship during this period of time because the government is not making payments. We all know that there will be commitments in and around mortgages. Food still needs to be put onto the table. This measure speaks directly to addressing the financial hardship that would have inadvertently been incurred by some of those ADF members. The amendment will allow veterans to receive their predischarge salary during this period. The Department of Veterans' Affairs will make an adjustment to the person's incapacity payments after the superannuation component has been finalised.

Escalating access to non-liability health care is a vital element of mental health treatment for current and former members of the ADF. In the 2016-17 budget, this government committed no less than $37.9 million to extend eligibility for non-liability health care to all current and former permanent members of the ADF for five mental health conditions: post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, depression, alcohol use disorder and substance use disorder. Post-traumatic stress disorder is such a terrible disease. I have some former members of the ADF in my electorate who, at face value, when you meet these guys, are physically fit. They are strong men—strong in character. I remember one member who suffers. During the 2010-11 Lockyer Valley floods their years of training kicked straight back in and they took charge of a community. Their military skills, when it came to systematically going through, street by street, using grid reference mapping, ensured that their community was safe. They took command in an environment where there was turmoil and chaos. These people suffer with these terrible demons of post-traumatic stress disorder, and it is worthy then to see the assistance that is available to these people. I did not know about the disease until these guys came to me and shared with me their symptoms and how it plays on their marriages. I commend their wives for the stress that they are put under. Anything we can do in this place to assist those terrible illnesses has my full support.

In addition to expanding the range of conditions for which nonliability health care may be provided, accessing this treatment has also been made easier. There is no need to lodge a formal application; a veteran can now call or email the Department of Veterans' Affairs and ask for treatment. There were a number of hurdles that were quite laborious in the past but we are reducing that and making it easier. Just one day of continuous full-time service means a person can access this treatment; there is no longer the requirement for a person to have had either three years continuous full-time service or operational service to be eligible for nonliability health care. That is an enormous amount of red tape reduction. There is no need for a formal diagnosis at the time of requesting treatment. The machine will actually pick up and go through a process of diagnosis. The treatment is known as nonliability health care because it need not be linked to a condition arising from the service of the eligible person. Further, it is completely separate from any claim for compensation.

The government committed $5.5 million to this measure in the 2016-17 budget, to improve support for veterans by increasing the incapacity cut-off age to align with age pension eligibility. This will enable veterans to continue to receive incapacity payments up until they become eligible for the age pension. Approximately 120 veterans per annum will benefit from this change.

Currently, payment of incapacity entitlements under the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004 ceases when an employee reaches 65 years of age or, if the injury occurred on or after the age of 63, after a maximum of 104 weeks of incapacity entitlements have been received. This amendment keeps pace with the scheduled age pension increases, to ensure injured veterans may not be without adequate means of financial support upon reaching 65 years of age once the age pension eligibility changes take effect.

In a nutshell, this bill will support our veterans in real and tangible ways, from increasing access to vital mental health treatment, to better financial support for ADF members transitioning to civilian life and ensuring access to incapacity entitlements through to pension age.

This measure has been well received right throughout my RSLs and more recently at Remembrance Day over at the Lockyer Valley and at Gatton. I had the opportunity to catch up with a number of our past-serving diggers. The president over there is no less than Les Nash. We had a wonderful lunch afterwards at the RSL, and these measures were spoken about. These measures are being well received by those former-serving ADF members.

I would also like to take the opportunity to throw a bouquet to Lieutenant Colonel Aaron Hassall, who serves in one of the Defence facilities in my electorate, the Canungra army warfare training centre. He recently gave a speech on behalf of the ADF at a swap meet for military enthusiasts who brought along their tanks and jeeps—anything that was green was at the Beaudesert showgrounds. He gave an incredibly stirring address. He spoke passionately about the means of communication and transportation and how it had changed through the ages, from horseback right through to the world-renowned Bushmaster armed personnel vehicles used in Afghanistan. They are so well regarded by our allied forces that, when they are being shuffled around, the Americans and other allies would much prefer to be travelling with us because of the safety element in those machines. Aaron, I believe, is going to be taking up an office not dissimilar to West Point in the US, where he will be training Lieutenants Colonels for the American Army for the next two years—a very honourable position—and we should be proud as a community to know that we are sending the best of our soldiers to train the next generation of leaders for our allied forces in the Americas.

I also acknowledge the member for Ryan, who will speak on this bill. She is an enormous advocate for the Defence Force. She has the Gallipoli Barracks at Enoggera in her electorate. It was just recently that we were speaking—in my capacity on the capital works committee—about some of the work that we will be doing in that area and how acute the member is with the programs. She is also a proud mother of a son who serves in the Australian Defence Force. Any contribution that you make in this place, member for Ryan—I know you do it with a sense of loyalty and advocacy for the Australian Defence Force, and you should be commended for your support in this space.

Again I want to take this opportunity to acknowledge the opposition's support for this bill. I commend the bill to the House.

Susan Templeman (Macquarie, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I today rise to represent the 2,000 veterans and their families, and the 1,300 Australian Defence Force personnel who live in my electorate of Macquarie and to support this bill.

We are united in our respect for the many sacrifices these service men and women and their families make to serve our nation, regardless of whether they are deployed in active duty, in peacekeeping forces, in training, or logistical support at home bases. However, our support has not always translated into ensuring that our service men and women, and our veterans, are adequately cared for and protected.

With the indulgence of the House, I would like to recount some truly frightening statistics. The Department of Veterans' Affairs states that, as at March 2016, veterans serving in East Timor, on average, had 2.56 health conditions per veteran. For the Solomon Islands it was 2.10. For those who served in Afghanistan: 2.9. For those who served in the Iraq conflict: 2.56. Post-traumatic stress disorder tops the list in all conflicts, with nearly 3,000 veterans having ongoing issues with PTSD. Physical diseases are often easier to see. If we factor in all common mental illnesses and addictions—alcohol dependence and abuse, depressive disorders, adjustment disorder, anxiety disorder and psycho-active substance abuse—it is no small matter, and our veterans are facing serious issues when it comes to the prevalence of mental health conditions.

Even more worrying is the fact that the reporting of mental health issues relative to other conditions is so low, so the chances are that there are many more vets and personnel out there suffering from mental illness but not reporting it. This is not good enough. These men and women have put their life on the line for the defence of our country. In many cases, they are not getting the support and assistance they desperately need and deserve. I have many RSL sub-branches in my electorate from Richmond and Windsor, up the mountains from Glenbrook to Katoomba, and I also have the Blackheath and Mount Victoria Sub-branch, which I am very honoured to say I am patron of. I have the Springwood-based Vietnam Veterans Association in my electorate. I also have St John of God hospital at North Richmond, which is highly regarded for the incredible work that it has done over many years in helping veterans deal with their mental health issues.

Not an event occurs, whether it be Anzac Day, Vietnam Veterans Day, or most recently, Remembrance Day, without a conversation occurring around the impact of mental illness on the lives of families and returned service personnel. The same is true of interactions that I am unfortunate enough to have with the personnel at RAAF Base Richmond and RAAF headquarters Glenbrook. Twenty-two per cent of the ADF, or one in five, have experienced at least one mental health disorder in the last 12 months, and more than half have experienced mental illness during their life. This is a rate significantly higher than the rest of the community. More shockingly, 24 per cent of the individuals with an ICD-10 mental illness in the ADF reported feeling that in the previous 12 months life was not worth living. This is particularly concerning when your electorate has such a large number of personnel and returned personnel living in it. The Richmond RAAF base is the core part of the community. In the Hawkesbury, most people would be related to, know of, or be friends with members of someone in the ADF, or their children would go to school with the sons and daughters of Defence personnel. It would be much the same case in the Blue Mountains, and we have a very large number of young people who are part of cadets wanting to be part of the Defence Force as they get older.

So for me and my community, the issue of prevalence of mental illness in veterans and service people is not one that we discuss abstractly. It is an issue that can have wide reaching and devastating effects in our local area. It is an issue which affects not only the service personnel or veteran in question, but their friends, their family and our community. That is why I am so passionate about ensuring that our service men and women are given the best access possible to mental health services and preventative procedures. We owe it, not just to them, but to our communities to take action.

In May this year, I stood at McQuade Park in Windsor to honour the coming home of the remains of 33 veterans and dependants who died in the Vietnam conflict. Two veterans of the Blue Mountains were among those repatriated: Corporal Bob Bowtell and Private Ron Field, both educated at Katoomba High School. In August, I was privileged to attend, along with more than 200 people, a gathering at the Lawson War Memorial, a welcome home commemoration for them. What remains most vivid for me was the moving account of one of the mates of Bob Bowtell, who died from a lack of oxygen in the underground labyrinth of a Viet Cong tunnel in South Vietnam while on duty with the 3rd Field Troop of the Royal Australian Engineers 50 years ago. The memories of that night are clearly not far from their mates' minds. It remained a heavy burden for his friend to carry.

If you include all mental illnesses, the total list of Vietnam vets suffering from mental illness reaches more than 30,000 people. That is one mental illness for every two vets, a prevalence rate of 50 per cent. To quote Major General John Cantwell:

We cannot underestimate the damage that we might be doing to our people through constant stress. We must do everything we can to help them out psychologically with medical care, with everything. These people are putting their lives on the line, they do this without question. They don't flinch and when they hurt, when they are hurting as they will down the years, we've got to keep stepping up as a society and look after them.

He is right. We owe this to our veterans. We owe this to their family and friends.

The ADF has been engaging in a constant consultative process to devise best practice responses to mental illness amongst deployed and domestic personnel. However, these attempts are worthless unless we pledge to make the necessary legislative changes. So many ADF personnel simply do not seek help. The reasons they give—27 per cent say they do not want to be treated differently, and another 27 per cent say they do not want it to harm their career. These were the highest rated perceived stigmas. The highest rated barrier though to seeking help at all would be that it reduces deployability. We need to provide tangible support to assist the ADF and veterans so that they have easier access to mental health facilities and prevention strategies. This bill certainly goes some way to do just that and I am, therefore, very proud to support it.

The provisions within schedule 2 of the bill extend the eligibility for non-liability health care, allowing personnel to take part in early intervention strategies sooner. It does away with the need for personnel to have engaged in three years continuous full-time service. They do not need to lodge an application and receive a diagnosis before accessing the appropriate support. Under these changes, groups of veterans who did not make three years' service—and that includes women who face sexual and personal harassment in the ADF and, as a result, left before three years of service—will now be able to access mental healthcare services. Essentially, ADF members no longer have to jump through bureaucratic hoops, as a result of the provisions within schedule 2. This is a good first step to ensuring that ADF personnel are able to access mental health services in the first place and that reporting rates may be improved. This will make a real and positive impact in my electorate, and it is a change I strongly welcome.

This bill is particularly important in the context of Remembrance Day, where this year we not only marked the anniversary of the guns falling silent on the Western Front—which is, in itself, a significant day for me, as I had two grandfathers fighting on the Western Front: Leslie Robert Templeman and Herbert Raymond Axtens—but also ensured the day highlighted the suicide rates of veterans and Defence Force personnel, which is a significant step to lifting the stigma on mental illness that makes it so much harder to address.

I commemorated Remembrance Day at Glenbrook, Colo Heights, Freemans Reach and Windsor, as well as at the service that we had here the day before Remembrance Day. Now, more than ever, I am reminded that Remembrance Day must be more than just a mere token; it must be more than a minute of silence, and more than just a fixture in our calendars. I hope it continues to be a day to honour those who have served, and to wholeheartedly pledge to ensure that our current and future generations of service men and women are cared for and protected in return for their service to our nation. Our commemoration for those soldiers who have made the ultimate sacrifice means nothing unless we actively seek to ensure that those who serve and survive do so with good health, both physical and mental.

I am proud to support this bill, in the name of the serving and former personnel in my electorate and their families, friends and loved ones. I am proud to support it on behalf of RSL sub-branches all across my electorate. This bill will ensure that 67,000 additional members of the ADF are able to access quality health care for mental health conditions. No longer will they need to jump through an obscene number of hoops; nor will they be excluded from NLHC coverage because of the length of their service. This is a priority area for Labor, and we will continue to work cooperatively with the government in this parliament to explore what more can be done to support those who have served and fought for our country. I urge all members to support this bill.

Jane Prentice (Ryan, Liberal Party, Assistant Minister for Social Services and Disability Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to speak on the Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Budget and Other Measures) Bill 2016. This bill and the topic of our veterans are very dear not only to me but also to the wider community of the Ryan electorate. We are all here today, no matter what our political creed, as a result of the freedoms afforded to us by our veterans. With Ryan proudly home to the Gallipoli Barracks at Enoggera, the second-largest military base in our country, this bill is of great interest to many in my electorate.

It is only fitting that this bill provides further measures, a result of the 2016-17 budget, that seek to improve the lives of our service men and women. This bill contains three measures: firstly, to pay interim incapacity payments at 100 per cent of normal earnings; secondly, to extend eligibility for non-liability healthcare treatment for certain mental health conditions, to cover all current, former and future ADF members; and thirdly, and finally, to align the cut-off age for incapacity payments to the increased pension age as defined in the Social Security Act 1991.

I have seen and continue to see firsthand the struggles faced by our veterans. Importantly, through this bill, the coalition government is paving the way to a system that supports all veterans in need of assistance—former, current and future personnel. Currently, when a member is discharged from the ADF, there can be a period of time before incapacity payments can be determined while superannuation entitlements are finalised. I, along with my coalition colleagues, appreciate the immense financial pressure this can cause some discharged members. So, by enabling interim incapacity payments at 100 per cent of normal earnings, veterans will receive their pre-discharge salary during this period of time. I note that this measure will be available immediately upon discharge at a level commensurate with the member's regular salary.

The number of cases of mental health conditions amongst the Defence community is ever-increasing and illustrates the horrors that many have seen and experienced. The non-liability healthcare measure within this bill extends eligibility to all current and former permanent members of the ADF diagnosed with PTSD, anxiety, depression, alcohol use disorder and substance use disorder. Further to the expansion of the range of conditions for which the NLHC may be provided, the treatment will also become more accessible. There will be no need to lodge a formal application. Simply telephone or email the Department of Veterans' Affairs and ask for treatment. To be eligible for NLHC, members will only be required to have just one day of continuous full-time service to access treatment. And there is no need for a formal diagnosis at the time of requesting treatment. A diagnosis is, however, required within six months.

It is estimated that, under these changes, 67,000 additional current and former permanent members of the ADF will become eligible to receive NLHC treatment for a mental health condition. The NLHC facilitates fast access to mental health treatment and encourages early intervention to offer the best chance of recovery.

By aligning the cut-off age for incapacity payments to the increased pension age, the coalition government is improving support for veterans. This amendment will enable veterans to continue to receive incapacity payments up until they become eligible for the age pension.

The Defence community instils a sense of family that is unsurpassed. This is evident through none other than the RSLs in my electorate. Gaythorne RSL, Sherwood Indooroopilly RSL, Kenmore Moggill RSL, Toowong RSL and The Gap RSL all play an important role in the support of our returned service men and women and their families. And I digress for a moment to congratulate the RSL on successfully obtaining the next Invictus Games for Australia. These RSL organisations help provide support through their financial and other assistance to the Defence family. They provide a local place of remembrance and significance, of importance to those who have served as well as to newer generations. I urge not only the members here today but all Australians to support their local RSL, whether it is through a visit for a meal or perhaps attending the many significant ceremonies held every year.

Let us not overlook the pivotal role our schools play to ensure the everlasting memory of our servicemen and women. I recently attended the Ferny Grove State School Festival and while there I was pleased to revisit a memorial garden funded through the Anzac Centenary grants program. The memorial garden, shaped like a Flanders poppy, gives students a place to sit and reflect on the Anzac tradition, its values of service, sacrifice, selflessness, mateship and bravery. I know that future generations—not just those attending Ferny Grove State School—will also benefit from the many wonderful memorials and dedications in their own schools and communities.

I would like to place on the record my acknowledgement and appreciation to all those who are currently serving in Australia and around the world, and also to their families, who make great sacrifices. Often our community members do not appreciate the impact it has on them.

Let us all remember that the very democracy that elected us to this place is a benefit derived from our veterans. The measures in this bill are not only timely but a reminder that we as a country should always support the selfless work of Australia's Defence personnel. These measures are a step in the right direction for which so many veterans and their families, of whom many are constituents of the Ryan electorate, have awaited.

I thank the opposition for their support and commend this bill to the House.

Cathy O'Toole (Herbert, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My electorate, the electorate of Herbert, has one of the highest veteran population percentages in Australia, and is home to the largest army base in the country. I am proud to support this bill.

I believe the Leader of the Opposition, Bill Shorten, said it best when he stated: 'As a nation, we are better at honouring the memory of our dead than looking after our living.' The honourable Jeff Kennett was very passionate in his address on the 11th of the 11th, 2016, at the War Memorial where he clearly stated the devastating reality of mental ill-health in the veteran and ex-service personnel in our communities. We have a long way to go to adequately look after and support our veterans and ex-service personnel, but some of the amendments mentioned here today start to rectify this situation.

As a result of Townville being home to the largest Defence presence in our country and also due to our glorious weather and relaxed lifestyle, many personnel choose to retire in our community. We have approximately 6,500 ADF personnel. Add to that a further 3,500 to 10,000 family members. There are approximately 5,000 DVA clients as well as 4,000 to 9,000 family members. These figures do not include the potentially thousands of veterans who are not registered with DVA who also reside in Townsville with their families.

In recognising that our veteran, ex-service personnel and Defence community plays a vital role to the greater Townsville community, I established the Townsville Defence Community Reference Group. This high-level and committed group has been established to ensure that federal government policy reflects the needs of our Defence community, and these amendments do just that. Supporting veterans and their families should not be embroiled in politics, especially considering that we are talking about the people who have given courageously and selflessly of their lives to ensure that we enjoy the freedom that Australia offers to our citizens.

The Leader of the Opposition was in Townsville on Tuesday last week where he hosted an open town hall forum. At that forum Bill Shorten was asked by a veteran if he would 'fight for veterans'. The Leader of the Opposition did not hesitate to declare his support, and that is exactly what Labor is doing here today. Labor will always encourage and support measures designed to ensure that existing programs take account of mental health requirements for veterans and ex-service personnel.

Before commencing my career in parliament, I was the CEO of a community-managed mental health organisation. I have worked in the mental health sector for approximately 14 years. During that time, I have given evidence to a number of Senate committees about the improvements that could occur for contemporary mental health services.

Mental Health affects one in five people in any 12-month period, and no-one is exempt. It is positive that this issue has come to the surface, as it also further highlights the need for a strong stigma reduction campaign. Veterans and ex-service personnel living with mental ill-health and distress are not the only ones bearing the dreadful impact. This also impacts on their families and friends. As a result of mental ill-health, these people are also not engaged in work. Our veterans and ex-service personnel are often homeless, living in poverty and experiencing sever family breakdown. This is simply unacceptable when we consider that these people have put their lives on hold to serve our country. Our veterans, ex-service personnel and their families deserve nothing less than world-class contemporary care and support.

Veterans' mental health continues to be an issue of significant concern, and an area in which Labor is committed to identifying where more support can be provided. This bill seeks to make three specific adjustments. The amendments to schedule 1 provide for payments of interim compensation to incapacitated current or former ADF members while the actual amount of compensation is being determined. Current applicants are paid at the national minimum wage amount while their claims are being processed, which can be less than they were earning at the time of the injury. When suffering from an injury, this adds a lot of stress and mental anguish for our current or former Defence personnel.

We do not need to add to this anguish and stress by adding financial hardship as well. The strain of financial hardship often creates a significant downward spiralling effects, and that is one additional stress that our veterans and ex-service personnel simply do not need. These amendments will at the very least ensure that we do not add financial stress on top of what is already a difficult and stressful situation. I have said, and I will always say, that where possible early intervention and prevention is prudent and can result in better outcomes for people.

Prior to these amendments, ADF members were required to have had either three years of continuous full-time service or operational service, have lodged an application with the Veterans' Entitlements Act and have a diagnosis. In my electorate, this would be probably one of the highest complaints that I receive from veterans and ex-service personnel. When a person is living with mental ill-health, things that would normally be taken for granted can become incredibly hard and overwhelming. Stigma is definitely one of the most significant issues that people living with mental ill health face, and the perceived shame often prevents people from reaching out for help. Our veterans, ex-service personnel and serving personnel experience things that a lot of us cannot even begin to comprehend. Often their mental health conditions are quite complex and cannot be diagnosed simply by ticking boxes. Under these changes, people will be able to access NLHC immediately and only need to have served one full-time day. These amendments will change the lives of an estimated 67,000 current and former permanent personnel. These members will now become eligible to receive NLHC. This includes victims of abuse in the ADF who may have previously been excluded from NLHC coverage due to the period in which they served or the length of their service. Although these extensions are limited to post-traumatic stress disorder, depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, alcohol use disorder and substance use disorder, this is a first step in the right direction. Further changes align the incapacity payment cut-off age with that of aged pension eligibility. This schedule ensures veterans are not left without income support prior to being able to access the aged pension and will benefit approximately 120 veterans per annum.

Defence, veterans and ex-service personnel issues are a high priority for me as the member for Herbert and remain a high-priority area for Labor. We will continue to work collaboratively with the government over this term of parliament to explore what more can be done to support those who have served and fought for our country. Just as our veterans and ex-service personnel stood up and fought for us, it is now my turn to stand up and fight for them. I am proud to support my veteran and ex-service personnel community in speaking to and supporting these amendments.

Warren Snowdon (Lingiari, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for External Territories) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank my friend the member for Herbert for her contribution and acknowledge her involvement and engagement with the Defence community around her electorate, the importance that they have in her mind and her service of the needs of the Defence community. I am pleased to participate in the debate on the Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Budget and Other Measures) Bill 2016 and offer Labor's support for this legislation. As a former Minister for Defence Science and Personnel and Minister for Veterans' Affairs, I see some people in the advisers box with whom I used to work closely. I thank them for the work they have done on the legislation because I think it is very important. It is a continuation of work which has been ongoing for a number of years.

The bill will allow for interim incapacity payments at 100 per cent of normal earnings to be paid until a final incapacity payment can be determined. It will extend access to non-liability mental health treatment to all past and current members of the Australian Defence Force irrespective of how long or where they served or their type of service. It will align the end date for veterans' incapacity payments with the incremental increase in the age pension age to 67 by 2024. These are important amendments. Whilst, to the outside observer, they might seem rather pedestrian, they are in fact not. They will have a measurable and important positive outcome for the veterans community, and that is something which I know all members in this House would support.

As I say, I come to this debate as a former minister in this space, and I think it is fair to say that, over the last decade or so, there has been an evolution in the way in which we deal with veterans, veterans entitlements and, indeed, existing members of the Defence Force community. One of the things that I think it is very hard for us to understand—those of us who have not served, particularly since 1999—is that there has been such an intense effort by the defence forces over this period that active service has meant active service. Many veterans have spent some years away in uniform fighting for the causes for which we have asked them to fight. That is important because, in the period post Vietnam, we suffered from not treating people correctly—indeed, shamefully so, I think. That came back to haunt us in many ways, but, most importantly, it came back to haunt us in the ways in which veterans exhibited, over time, mental health issues and other health issues which have meant that they required treatment.

I have always taken the view that, as a potential Defence Force recruit, once you march into Kapooka to do your basic training you are the responsibility of the nation till the day you die. You should immediately be recognised as a potential client of the Department of Veterans' Affairs because you may, for example, have an accident whilst you are training, which will be seen as part of your service, and you and your family, therefore, may be impacted until the day you die. We need to accept as a nation that, once people put on that uniform, we have a responsibility to them and for them until they pass—and, indeed, for their families. As we know, a significant proportion of Veterans' Affairs clients currently are widows. In a small number of cases they are widowers, but they are mostly ageing widows of Second World War veterans and Vietnam veterans and widows of veterans of the most recent engagement we have had overseas.

I contemplate what has happened since 1999. In the period of peacetime we, of course, had veterans who had issues as a result of their service, but, importantly, in the period post 1999 and post East Timor, there has been an ongoing intensity in the rate at which people have been asked to serve overseas and be involved in some horrific conflicts. That has an enormous impact upon them and their families. When I had a position of responsibility, what came to me was the fact that we are asking people to do six, seven, eight, nine and even 10 tours of duty. This is particularly so for special forces soldiers. It is all right whilst you are in the team and you have all your mates around you and you are serving, but once you leave the security of that uniform and you transition out a lot of things change. Part of what we are now dealing with in the general community is a rising awareness of mental health issues, which have emerged as a result of service. I am pleased to say that the defence department and, indeed, the Department of Veterans' Affairs are both very much alive to this.

One of the issues which we have been able to start to grapple with is not only how to amend legislation to meet the needs of contemporary veterans now and into the future but also how to make sure that their separation from the Defence Force and the transition process is more seamless and that they are being cared for and counselled whilst they are in the departure lounge, so to speak, and when they leave. Now there are on-base advisory services from the Department of Veterans' Affairs on most Defence Force bases around the country, and these advisory services are to work with current serving people around what entitlements they may have as a result of having served as veterans and as a result of their service. That is important—that is very important. What we require them to do as they transition is understand the nature of the services that are available to them through the Department of Veterans' Affairs upon their transition. That is an obligation that the Commonwealth accepts and should accept. Where there have been changes in the way that the Department of Defence is dealing with its personnel—for example, through having an electronic health record—will significantly impact on the way in which the Department of Veterans' Affairs deals with those veterans post-service because their records will be a lot easier to access. The timeliness of claims against the Department of Veterans' Affairs for incidents that have happened during service will change dramatically, and that is very important. It is a very positive outcome that will happen, in my view, as a result of the electronic health record being introduced in the Department of Defence.

It is that separation which starts to cause us concern. I mentioned to you earlier about the prospect of people having served six, seven, eight or nine tours overseas—fighting on our behalf in that great Australian uniform under our flag—and when they come back, they may or may not have had a physical injury, but they may have acquired, over time, a mental health issue, which they themselves do not recognise yet, and may not become obvious to them for some time after they separate. That is an issue—that is a real issue for us. I know there has been a Senate inquiry which has looked at suicides over the last 12 months, and that is important, but we need to understand the way in which Defence personnel behave once they leave.

One of the issues which is really difficult to track—you might not believe this, but I am sure you do—is that when some people leave their uniform, they do not want to have a bar of it. They have had it. They have had a gutful and it is time to leave—'I don't want anything to do with my previous unit or the RSL, or anyone else; I just want out of here,'—and we lose track of them. We lose contact with them. Some of these people may, in the future, as a result of their service have an issue around their mental health, which they themselves may or may not recognise. Because they have lost contact and because they are not with their mates, who they had previously, or their unit, or because they are not associated with the RSL, Soldier On or Mates4Mates, or any one of the other organisations that exist, they fall through the cracks. These are the people we should be most concerned about because these are the ones that I know—at least I think I know—will have the most difficult way ahead. When we are contemplating this legislation, we should not see it in isolation. We should see it as a part of a broader canvas, which is designed to deal with the current and ongoing needs of Defence Force personnel and potentially their families. That is important for all of us.

I know from my own observations and experience that the Department of Veterans' Affairs team, despite the negative press that sometimes they are given by particular people who live in other parts of this parliament, are, in fact, dedicated to what they do and work extremely hard to get a beneficial outcome for Defence personnel and their families, including providing the best of medical care that is available, whether it is because of their physical health or because of their mental health. That is important. There has been an increase in recognition of mental health issues as a result of a report which was initiated by Labor during its period of government when I was then the minister—the Dunt review into veterans and the mental health support coming from the Department of Defence and, indeed, veterans affairs, which was involved in looking at suicides. It was very important work which provided a framework for Defence moving forward.

That is not to say it is perfect, because it is not by far, but we need to recognise that things are happening and things have changed. In 2012, the then Labor government initiated the Bravery Trust, which was formerly known as the Australian Defence Force Trust. It was established with a grant of $14 million from the Commonwealth. Its purpose is to provide financial support to veterans, current and former members of the Australian Defence Force, and their families who have suffered injury or illness as a result of their service and are experiencing financial hardship. That is important. It is important recognition that there are sometimes people who, despite the best efforts of themselves and their families, are unable to manage and need support. This trust provides them with the capacity to get access to their support. It is very similar to the SAS Resources Trust, which is, in itself, a perpetual trust. In fact, the Bravery Trust was established to mirror the SAS fund and to provide that ongoing support.

The RSL has a significant role and an ongoing significant role in working with serving veterans and veterans who have left the Defence Force to make sure that they have access to services. This has been a significant challenge for the RSL, because a lot of younger veterans have seen the RSL as a place for old codgers to hold up the bar. We know that is not the case. I can well recall an annual meeting of a particular branch of the RSL where the then RSM of the Army got up and said, 'You have got to do more. You have to understand current serving veterans and their requirements.' That remains the case.

Significantly, we have seen the development of new organisations that are aimed at contemporary veterans, Soldier On being one of them—and a very good organisation it is—and Mates4Mates being another. These are important initiatives, but they go hand in glove with what government does and what government support is available. So whilst this legislation we are discussing today is important there is a much bigger picture, and we have to understand that bigger picture and our role in it.

We have to understand that there are people who are hurt—immeasurably hurt—as result of their service to this country, and they may not recognise it themselves for some years past their service. We have to be available for them to provide the support they need on an ongoing basis, and we need to be alive to the fact that some of them will not want to talk to us. We have to find a way to connect to them and make sure they understand the services that are available to them and their families. If we can do that we will make a difference and maybe, just maybe, we will address the issues of the suicide, self-harm and abuse among far too many of those who have served this great country.

We have an obligation in this place to support this legislation. But we have a broader obligation to all serving men and women, and all past veterans and their families, which will be with us till the day they die. It is something I am personally committed to.

Luke Gosling (Solomon, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I also wish to speak in support of the proposed amendments to the veterans affairs legislation. I acknowledge my colleague the member for Lingiari and his years of dedication to not only improving government services for veterans, for Defence personnel, but also working in a collaborative way with the ex-service community to make sure that the people who have served us, and their families, have the best possible support. They certainly deserve it.

Although we have seen older veterans pass and the Vietnam vets are doing their very best to reach out to the younger group of veterans coming through, we will see more and more of these younger veterans seeking support. That is why this legislation is so important. It used to be three years you had to have spent in the service before you were eligible to seek support. You do not have to have served for three years to be trained up and deployed to a war zone wearing the Australian flag on your shoulder—that can happen in a shorter time. You also do not have to have served for three years to have had difficulties, mental-health problems, as a result of your service. During my service I lost some mates. It was not in a war zone. It was during training. It can happen. You can be put in positions where you see your mates seriously injured. So this legislation is great, because you only have to have spent a day in uniform to get some support. Families also deserves the best care. They have long periods where their spouse or someone in their family is deployed, and they are without the support at home of that family member. When a service member has difficulty adjusting back to civilian life sometimes their family too has difficulty working through that.

The name change from the VVCS, Vietnam Veterans Counselling Service, to the Veterans and Veterans Families Counselling Service is a good thing. In my electorate, in Darwin and Palmerston, Vietnam veterans are about supporting all veterans, not just Vietnam veterans. That is excellent. I want to acknowledge the work of Peter Mansell, past president of the NT Vietnam Veterans Association; the current president, Bob Shewring, for his work; and the current vice president, Ray Palmer, and his wife, Pam, who themselves lost a son in Afghanistan, and they are keen to support young patrons as they transition into civilian life.

There has been a bit in the media over the last week or so about supporting members of the Defence Force and veterans as they transition into civilian life, particularly the ones who need support, who might be struggling a bit moving from this incredibly supportive organisation that the Defence Force is into civilian life. All that is very positive. I know when I transitioned into civilian life I missed Defence. You miss your mates. You miss that supportive environment. Out in the civilian world you can come across employers and other members of the community who, through no fault of their own, do not appreciate the skillset you have or the experiences you have had in life.

Having the engagement of industry, having a broader conversation in our community about the importance of helping veterans through that transition, is a good thing. We need to focus more on helping people with mental-health issues in Defence, and this legislation is important in enabling that. But the overwhelming majority of people who are moving from Defence are just 'good to go'. They are really solid operators who you can depend upon to get a job done. They are skilled up. They are disciplined. They have pride in themselves and their country. As they transition into a more normal or civilian work life there is a bit of an adjustment that goes along with it. I can only say that if you get an opportunity to employ an ex-service man or woman it is a good thing to do because having someone who is so mission focused, can get on, have a bit of independence of mind, show some initiative and get stuff done will help your organisation.

I want to quickly reflect on my electorate in the Northern Territory and the veterans that we have in our community. We have around 1,900 registered; there would be more who have not come into contact with DVA. It is probably a good thing that we encourage people to put in claims, not so they go down this track of potential dependence—although some people really need that because of the wounds or illnesses that they have—but so they can get what they are entitled to for their service. My father had some injuries from serving in Vietnam and he never claimed for them for decades and decades. He certainly said to me and my brothers who have served, 'If you've had some injury from your service, then claim it.' That is what our country is committed to; when we have people who represent us in the armed forces, they are entitled. This legislation today means that the scope of people who are eligible for that support will be extended.

Overwhelmingly, what we want to do is support veterans as they move into independent civilian life as productive members of the community with so much to offer. I think the importance of these ex-service organisations is that they allow an ongoing connection to a Defence environment whilst also moving into civilian life and getting on with things. I will talk about where we are at in the Territory with some of those organisations shortly, because we have been doing a lot of work and it is starting to bear some fruit.

In the Territory, we also have veterans working fly in fly out in the mining sector and other sectors. We want to be able to support them while they are with us in the Territory, and we hope that they stay and move to the Territory permanently. We also have grey nomads, usually Vietnam veterans or Korean veterans who are travelling around Australia. They come in, particularly when we have meetings with the Vietnam vets in Bees Creek. We had a meeting there yesterday, and they are always extremely welcome. Often veterans who are only in the Territory for a short amount of time need assistance. We have dedicated volunteers that are giving that assistance.

I spoke with Vice Admiral Ray Griggs and Brigadier Dan Fortune this morning. They are outstanding Australians. As Brigadier Fortune moves into civilian life after a distinguished career—DSC and Bar; he is an extraordinary Australian—I want to put in the Hansard that he has served our country not just in Afghanistan but in a whole suite of countries around the world in an absolutely exemplary manner. I wish him all the best with his career. It was great to chat briefly with Vice Admiral Ray Griggs as well.

Defence is doing a lot in this space. Defence really cares about its people. It is doing its best to help people when they are transitioning out of Defence and to make sure that they understand the supports that are out there when they shift out. Defence is an operationally focused organisation that is deployed throughout the world and is working in bases around Australia in support of our national interest. It is good that parliamentarians in this place have a full understanding of what Defence is actually doing for our people because it is significant, and any efforts to increase knowledge in the community about what Defence is doing, what DVA is doing and what ex-service organisations are doing are absolutely vital.

In this place, I want to acknowledge the work of Sir Angus Houston, who is working to make sure that we are plugging the gaps. We know that some veterans are falling through the cracks. We have had more young Australian veterans commit suicide in the last year than we have had Australians killed in Afghanistan over 13 years. It is a problem. As I said before, it is not common, but it is going to increase. This legislation is important in supporting what is sometimes called a tsunami, but let's hope it is not. Let's all actively work so that it is not and so that we can pre-empt difficulties that our serving men and women may have and give them the best care possible.

In the Territory, we have a great example of where veterans' communities and ESOs are at. I have spoken a couple of times in this place now about the need for the Northern Territory's deputy commissioner for veterans' affairs to be reinstated. The reason for that is that our veterans in the Territory deserve the highest level of representation. When deputy commissioners from around the country are called into Canberra to talk about issues that affect the veterans' community, the Northern Territory should be at that table. I look forward to hearing from the veterans' affairs minister on the reinstatement of the position of the deputy commissioner for veterans' affairs in the Northern Territory.

We also have an advocate that I want to recognise. Alex 'Kaz' Kaczmarek, a veteran, is currently a lone advocate working with many of our veterans in the Northern Territory. I want to acknowledge all the work that Kaz is doing. He has been a tireless worker for veterans, but we do not want to see him burn out. He had the strategic vision to get some ATAP training done with the support of some of those other advocates and volunteers—the Advocacy Training and Development Program, or ATDP. That training was recently held in Darwin, where we saw 15 members of our community, mainly from my electorate in Darwin and Palmerston, have two days of welfare training and three days of advocacy training. That training, along with peer-to-peer training and then on-the-job training as an advocate will lead those candidates to hopefully become a level 2 advocate. Not only will this take weight off Kaz's shoulders but it will mean that we can provide more intimate service to those that are going to be putting their hand up. And I think we will be having more people put their hand up in the future.

Last week I met with Soldier On. Soldier On are very keen to establish an office in Darwin. This is great news. It will not overlap with the work that other organisations like Vietnam Veterans NT, RSL, NT Veteran Centre are doing at the moment; it will complement the welfare and advocacy services being provided to veterans. Soldier On will offer assistance to those veterans who need it to get out into the workforce. We have got fantastic employers in the Northern Territory who understand the services and who are keen to employ veterans. I really welcome Soldier On's interest in establishing an office in Darwin so that they can assist some of our veterans into the civilian workforce.

We are very lucky to have so many businesses that are keen to get behind helping our men and women find meaningful employment. As I alluded to earlier, before people finish their time in Defence, they have a really important purpose and a really strong identity. What we want to do is work with them so that that purpose and that identity can be shifted into the civilian realm as they continue to serve our country.

Madeleine King (Brand, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to speak on the Veterans’ Affairs Legislation Amendment (Budget and Other Measures) Bill 2016. I thank the member for Solomon, a distinguished serviceman of this country. My state colleagues the member for Willagee, Peter Tinley, and the member for Warnbro, Paul Papalia, have also been proud servicemen who also now serve in our parliaments. As the member for Brand, I am proud to stand up today in support of our military personnel and veterans. I represent a seat which boasts a strong military presence. The Royal Australian Navy's largest base, Fleet Base West, HMAS Stirling, is located on Garden Island just off the coast of Rockingham in the heart of the Brand electorate. It is home to more than 2,300 service personnel and plays a critical role in the defence of the nation. It is home to the Anzac class frigates and the Collins class submarines along with some 70 other naval units.

Defence personnel from across Australia come to Brand to make their homes in the area and bring great benefit to the whole community. They have brought an overwhelming wealth of positives to the community. We are particularly mindful of the great challenges and sometimes the great tragedies that come with a life in the military. As well as the many serving service men and women and their families who call Brand home, there are also many veterans who live in the electorate who saw active service in the Second World War and in subsequent theatres of war. I stand here today for all those men and women because they were prepared to stand up for this country and were prepared to make sacrifices in defence of our nation and our way of life. I am also moved to support our veterans as the daughter of the former Royal Navy sailor and also the granddaughter of George Harvey Morris, a Royal Marine in the commando units of the Royal Navy. My brother also served in the Australian infantry. All have lived with some kind of trauma related to their service and all continue to pay the price well after their service has ended.

This Veterans’ Affairs Legislation Amendment (Budget and Other Measures) Bill will never be a cure all to address every veteran's concerns. There will be more that we can do. Indeed, many of the conditions that we treat today were not always recognised; returned soldiers were expected to just get on with life. The aftermath of the Great War delivered a legion of shell shocked and deeply damaged men back into Australian society with barely any care or assistance. They may have looked physically healthy but their mental injuries were often quite devastating. Today's returned service people from the campaigns in the Middle East have their own challenges to meet. So while one bill can never solve all the issues, at least this one is a very welcome step forward.

I think you can tell a lot about a country by the way that it looks after its veterans. There is no doubt about the respect and admiration we accord our returned service men and women—you only have to witness the Anzac Day parades and the Remembrance Day ceremonies around the country. But the challenge for us as parliamentarians is to continue to look at what we can do to help those who have done so much for this country. That is why Labor supports common-sense legislation that better serves the needs of our veteran community. We support our veterans and their families in getting the care and support that they deserve and that they need.

This bill is a step forward to further increase support of current and former members of our military. Among the reforms contained in the bill is a provision for the payment of interim compensation payments to incapacitated current or former Australian Defence Force members while the actual amount of compensation they will be afforded is being determined. Currently applicants are paid the national minimum wage while their claims for compensation are being processed. This means they might be forced to live on an income less than the income they received before their incapacitation. This can leave applicants having to cope with financial difficulties as well as with the stress of injury and of having left the service.

We can all imagine the difficulties such a reduction in income would cause. We can imagine the severe financial stress of having income suddenly reduced and the impact it would have when combined with the stress of dealing with a severe injury. In the suburbs of Brand that many defence families call home, unemployment is high and many households are already under financial stress. Defence families are not immune to the severe downturn hitting the West Australian economy. Defence Force spouses are amongst those who have either lost their jobs or who have had their hours of work reduced. Another hit to the family budget after a debilitating injury could be enough to tip a defence family over the edge into severe financial distress, and this bill will help prevent that from happening. It will help give our service men and women financial certainty when they need it most.

Defence families, like most Australian families, are usually geared according to their income with expenses including mortgage, rent, school fees, utilities, car loans and general living expenses dependent on a continued and consistent income. If your income suddenly falls, how do you continue to pay your bills when they stay at the same rate? How do you pay the mortgage, the rent, the school fees and power bills? This bill allows for payments to continue at 100 per cent of the applicant's normal income at the time of the injury until the claim is finalised. It is a change that makes sense. It is a change that reflects an understanding of the real world and the challenges faced by real individuals and real families. This change may represent a nominal cost to the Australian taxpayer but will mean the world for the small number of people caught up in this situation each year. I am sure future beneficiaries will include families and ex-Defence service men and women living in the electorate of Brand.

Perhaps the most significant reforms in this bill relate to the increasing access to treatment for mental health disorders which, thanks to the good work and support of advocacy services in this field—

Mark Coulton (Parkes, Deputy-Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The debate is interrupted in accordance with standing order 43. The debate may be resumed at a later hour. The member for Brand will have an opportunity to conclude her contribution at a later hour.