My question is to the Treasurer. In light of his previous answers, how can this Treasurer possibly claim that pensioners are better off when the Parliamentary Budget Office has exposed a $23-billion cut to the aged pension payments over the next decade?

I am actually advised that over the next decade the pension is going to increase by 5.1 per cent on an annualised basis and in 2024-25, according to the Parliamentary Budget Office, instead of being $74.8 billion a year it is $67.9 billion a year. The aged pension represents around 10 per cent of the total national budget.

Mr Brendan O'Connor interjecting—

Mr Albanese interjecting—

No, it is not. The member for Gorton and the member for Grayndler will desist.

It is important that we ensure the aged pension is sustainable. It is hugely important that we ensure the aged pension remains affordable. It is vitally important that we ensure the aged pension continues to increase by inflation at least every six months. That is hugely important. The only way you can do that is if you ensure the total budget—the total budget—lives within its means.

Making them worse off for their own goods!

The member for Parramatta will desist.

The fact is, the Labor Party left us with expenditure as a percentage of GDP well above the long-term average. In doing so, the only way you can fix the budget is to reduce expenditure, to reduce expenditure the way Bob Hawke urged us to do at the beginning of this year and Paul Keating urged us to do at the beginning of this year—and Dr Martin Parkinson has urged us to do, and the governor of the Reserve Bank has urged us to do and Angel Gurría, the secretary-general of the OECD, has urged us to do, and Moody's and Standard & Poor's have urged us to do and every major business leader in Australia has urged us to do, and, in fact, the Labor Party, before the last election, urged us to do. And that is to get the budget back to surplus. Either you have to reduce expenditure or you have to increase taxes.

No wonder the Labor Party says, 'We've got $21 billion of savings!' Under the Labor Party regime, savings were tax increases, that is what they were. They do not understand that tax increases are a greater burden on everyday Australians. Of course, under the Labor Party, the tax increases they say will fix the budget include reintroducing the carbon tax and reintroducing—

Have you got savings on the GP tax?

The member for Watson!

The fundamental problem is, it is the pensioners of Australia that have the pay the carbon tax. We got rid of the carbon tax, and they kept all the compensation.