My question is to the Prime Minister. Is the Prime Minister aware that at Senate estimates the Secretary of the Department of Veterans' Affairs confirmed a saving of $65.1 million in the forward estimates as a result of cutting the pension of some 280,000 veterans, partners of veterans and war widows? How can the Prime Minister continue to claim that he is not cutting pensions?

Because pensions go up every year. Pensions go up every year—every March pensions; every September pensions go up. Pensions will go up every single year. It is true that, come September 2017, if this government is re-elected, there will be a change in the rate of indexation. That is true, but pensions will continue to increase every single year. They will increase every March; they will increase every September; they will increase every single year. I say again to the rather noisy member for Jagajaga—the member for Jagajaga who is so honest and truthful that she promised in her 2012 budget update that 'we are back in surplus'.

When are we back in surplus? Not 2012!

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is on relevance: for this budget and this Prime Minister's cuts to pensions.

There is no point of order.

Honourable members interjecting—

The member for Lingiari is warned.

There is no year ever when pensions go down. Every year pensions go up. They go up in March every year. They go up in September every year. They go up twice every year. The only difference is that from September 2017 they will be indexed by the same rate that the member for Jagajaga herself, as minister for family services, thought was fair and reasonable for the family tax benefit. If it is fair and reasonable for the family tax benefit, if it is just and moral for the family tax benefit, it is moral for other benefits as well. Not only was the member for Jagajaga being utterly untruthful in her budget update; she is being utterly untruthful now. She should be better than that—she really should be.