Warren Truss (Wide Bay, National Party, Leader of the Nationals) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Prime Minister. I refer the Prime Minister to the draft Clean Energy Bill, which will require landfill managers to estimate the emissions that the rubbish they receive will emit for 30 years and then estimate the cost of those emissions for 30 years so that they can determine the price they should charge householders when next they take a load of rubbish to the tip. Can the Prime Minister explain how this is possible?

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

To the Leader of the National Party, I would refer him to a number of state based schemes which apply methodologies already. So this is not something newly invented; this is something that has happened under various other schemes. Indeed, when I have been to talk to people in the landfill industry, one of the questions they raise with me is the question of transition from some of the state based schemes that they are involved in.

Can I say to the Leader of the National Party, who asked the question too, this is really taking us back, so it is kind of groundhog day again, to the Leader of the Opposition's contention that apparently you cannot calculate—

Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order on direct relevance. If these schemes are as simple as the Prime Minister suggests, then she should answer the question and explain them to us.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Leader of the Opposition will resume his seat.

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would say to the Leader of the Opposition abuse is not a substitute for reason and he may want to go to some of the landfill sites where, for example, today they are collecting these emissions and today they are using those emissions to generate electricity for nearby households. In answer to the Leader of the National Party's question, I say that this is taking us back again to the Leader of the Opposition's proposition that apparently you cannot measure or track carbon pollution. If he really believes that, how can he support a minus five per cent target? How can he? This is him doing or saying anything. In front of people he believes are supporters of climate change denial he will get the kind of questions we have just had asked today. In front of audiences like those when he is blogging on Mamamia he will say he is in support of a minus five per cent target. But if the Leader of the Opposition genuinely believes that it is impossible to track carbon pollution he should get to the dispatch box and say he does not support a minus five per cent target. If he does support a minus five per cent target he should stop these stupid questions being asked.

Opposition members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Those on my left!