Graham Perrett (Moreton, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am very pleased to speak to the report Highwire act: cyber-safety and the young, a very substantial report that I was proud to be involved with, as a member of the Joint Committee on Cyber-Safety. I commend upfront the chair of the committee, Senator Dana Wortley, and the deputy chair, Mr Alex Hawke, the member for Mitchell, for the great work that they and the entire committee did. This report shows us in no uncertain terms what most of us already know, which is that much more needs to be done to address online safety for children in Australia. It was quite scary hearing some of the submissions. The internet offers great opportunities for our young people, through new technologies and greater connection. The internet came into my life when I was an educator, a teacher, and it was a wonderful learning opportunity for a schoolteacher to be able to access online rather than hard-copy resources. I left teaching to become a lawyer and, going back to classrooms now as a member of parliament, I see a completely different experience, because the internet is obviously in everybody's home—and with the rollout of the NBN we are facilitating that. But this great resource, which can offer so much good, has a darker side, and that is what this report is about.

There are very significant risks to the safety and privacy of young people—and of any people, including older people. Maybe the many things we have done to cultivate older people having connections to the internet are good, but there is then the capacity for them to strike up a friendship with a friendly young man from Nigeria or the like. But the focus of this inquiry was young people. Anybody who has young kids knows how tech-savvy they can be. I have a six-year-old and a two-year-old. The two-year-old is not quite computer-savvy but, my goodness, the six-year-old is incredible. I am no particular technophile, but I have seen the problems that can develop when he is on a free game site. I get recommendations from people whom I trust and who understand the internet about games he can play, and even with these games the ads that pop up are easy and tempting to click on for someone whose morality is not fully developed—and I think morality is fully developed for men at about 30. For some, it takes a little longer! I can see how tempting it is for young people—particularly young men, I would suggest—to make the foolish decision to click on something on the screen, when who knows what could happen.

One of the hallmarks of this inquiry, I am proud to say, was its engagement with young people to find out from them what is happening at the coalface. Much of what we learned during this inquiry we learned directly from the experiences of young Australians. As much as the committee appreciated the submissions of the other stakeholders that we heard from, hearing from the young people was particularly useful. They told us how they used the technology, which was scary, their awareness of the risks and also, thankfully, what they do to keep safe. Obviously, young people do make crazy decisions, but the crazy things that I did as a 10-year-old are long forgotten by everyone except me and maybe my brothers and sisters. What can happen now for a 10-year-old, a 12-year-old or a 15-year-old is that they lay mines that will explode much later in their life—the photograph, the blog or the comment that can go around the world. In the prism of parliamentary life we can see that we have to watch what we say—that maybe we should not slip on a tutu or a set of fishnet stockings when we are out, because it could haunt us for the rest of our life. But the reality is that young people tweet and blog and put things on Facebook, and do not realise that they are laying mines that will explode for them much later on. The classic would be someone like Corey Worthington—it might have seemed like a good idea as a 16-year-old, but when he goes to a job interview down the track they may ask, 'Are you that Corey Worthington?' Young people may not realise or understand the consequences of what they do.

One of the things the committee did to inform itself was put out a survey and get as many people as possible to complete it—33,750 people completed the survey. Many of the committee's recommendations came from the information that those people provided. The committee travelled to MacGregor State School, which is a very large school in my electorate and is one of the best schools in Queensland. Its year 7 students were actually one of the first to take part in an online survey. I thank the Minister for School Education, Early Childhood and Youth, Peter Garrett, and the Queensland Minister for Education, Cameron Dick, for attending MacGregor State School, but I particularly thank the MacGregor State School students and teachers. The survey got a lot of media attention in my electorate. All the students, particularly Carmen Zhu, Jason Tang, Linh-Dan Pham and Matthew Borka, were incredibly forthright. I particularly mention Matthew Borka, one of the school captains. He is a slight young man with glasses, who talked about his cyber-bullying experience. He is very switched on. I think it is easier to be elected to the federal parliament than it is to become a school captain at McGregor State School. They have this whole interview and speechmaking process. His platform was basically about combating bullying, both cyber-bullying and physical bullying, so it was a perfect school for us to attend and hear his experience. In an article in the Southern Star, local journalist Angela Ranke said:

Linh-Dan Pham knows first hand what happens when you stand up to bullies. The brave MacGregor State School student said she spoke up when she saw one of her peers being bullied and it put a stop to the behaviour.

"I've helped someone who was being bullied by doing that and it really worked," she said.

"We should stand up for the person who is being bullied and go tell a teacher."

Linh-Dan’s approach has the full endorsement of Mr Garrett.

This was just one example that helps us to realise how the world has changed because it is so interconnected and because of the land mines that exist.

Some of the committee's recommendations are common sense but it is salutary to revisit them, particularly the first recommendation: that we look at the feasibility of assisting preschools and kindergartens to start early on cyber-safety—so my six-year-old would already have had some support in relation to a cyber-safety education program, hopefully. The recommendations include simple things like coming up with an agreed definition of cyber-bullying and having a cyber-safety student mentoring program, so that those who understand the internet a bit better or have good computers at home are able to educate those who do not.

Of particular concern, as an Australian, is that, while we have good laws and a good social contract with our internet companies, they sometimes transfer personal information overseas and that the information is dealt with on a contractual basis with the overseas entities rather than under our laws. Even small businesses in my electorate do this. It is important that we make sure that information transferred overseas is protected in a manner that is at least equivalent to that provided for under Australia's privacy framework. I am reasonably happy with the Australian legislation but I am obviously not too sure what goes on in Mumbai and other places.

Some national core standards for cyber safety education in schools are being developed. We need to work with the teachers, the education ministers and the states to make sure that we have a core understanding of what we need to do to make our schools safe and to come up with some acceptable use agreements so that rather than all 9,800 schools having to reinvent the wheel we can say, 'These are the core things that every student in every school should be able to accept as acceptable use.'

Teachers are coming from a range of professions now. I know that you, Acting Deputy Speaker Bird, were a teacher in a former life. There are a lot of mature age students coming in. They bring life skills, but do not necessarily bring the internet and cyberworld skills that we need. So we need to ensure that all Australian universities that provide teacher training courses ensure that cyber safety material is incorporated into the core units in their curricula—not done as a standalone unit but embedded into the process.

One of the other particular recommendations is that we have the Minister for Broadband, Communication and the Digital Economy invite the consultative working group on cyber safety to negotiate protocols with overseas social networking sites such as Facebook in particular to ensure that offensive material is taken down as soon as possible. Obviously, if you have to put a phone call through to San Francisco or somewhere like that it can be a bit hard. Incredible damage can be done very quickly with Facebook and other social networking sites. Things can go around the world before they can be taken down.

They are some commonsense recommendations that I look forward to the government and other entities embracing. Obviously, these recommendations will go some way to making things safer. But the obvious fact is that safety starts at home. Schools and legislation and informed teachers all help but it is obviously at home where we can best educate our children about the dangers. Even if we are not a techno savvy person, we can still educate our children about commonsense approaches to the dangers. In closing, I want to again thank the committee chair, Senator Dana Wortley, for her efforts in driving this inquiry. I wish her well in her future endeavours, whatever they might be. I commend this report to the House.

Nola Marino (Forrest, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Unlike the member for Moreton, who was part of the whole process of creation of this report, I am a recent member of the cyber safety committee. Because it is an area in which I have a genuine interest and engagement, I am delighted to talk about the committee report, The highwire act: cyber safety and the young. I, like the previous speaker, want to acknowledge the chair, the deputy chair and the committee, who all did so much work on this report. It is a very good piece of work.

The previous speakers have spoken about the importance of cyber safety, particularly for young people. I am pleased that within the report there is acknowledgement of the need to engage with people at a very young age. This is really important. They need to be aware and alert. They are engaged with the internet at a very young age. They are, as we know, very savvy in this world. Not only that, they are very keen at a very young age to engage. But in doing so we have to make sure that they are aware, alert and protected. A lot of what is in this report reflects that intent, with some practical measures suggested to assist in that.

This year, it is important that we communicate directly with young people, as the committee did. We need to learn how they manage their issues and how they see things. That is a key part of why the recommendations out of this report will be useful and valuable, because young people have said, 'This is what we need; this is the world we're in.' I hope that the minister does respond to that, because the young people have said what they need and how they need things done. That engagement with young people is very important. I have a youth reference group that I meet on regular occasions. Interestingly, this year cybersafety was highlighted as one of the most important issues these young people are facing. Admittedly, this is an older age group, covering years 10 through 12. They raised really serious issues with me about online safety and even about being comfortable online. The use of social media sites is as much a threat to them and a challenge for them to deal with as it is an opportunity to engage and to be part of what young people do.

When you listen to young people it is interesting to learn that some of the things that come up on Facebook are not necessarily the things they want. The young people made me very aware of some of the Facebook issues, such as 'sexting', when we were having our discussion. Given their exposure to online scams and self-harm websites and the fact that they could be drawn into engaging with these sorts of websites and the behaviour that goes with that, they were very keen that education should start very young.

One thing that really concerned me was that cyberbullying happens 24 hours a day, seven days a week for some of our young people. That in itself is a major challenge. Those of us who were perhaps subjected to physical bullying were able to get away from it. However, a young person can become the target of cyberbullying that is then circulated to others. It is like a pack dog mentality whereby everybody gets involved and picks on that young person. It can create major social and emotional problems for that young person. Those who are picked on—to put it bluntly—in physical life can be the same young people who are very susceptible to being bullied online as well. They are quite vulnerable.

The young people told me that they were often concerned about talking to an adult about the fact that they were being bullied on the cyberscene. Whether it was their mobile phone with internet connection, their own computer or access to the internet at home, they did not want to lose that connection. One of the barriers to these young people getting the help they needed was the fact that they were often too scared to tell their mum or dad because they did not want to lose access. They were worried that that was how their mum and dad would react—that they would say, 'If that's what happening to you online then you just can't use it.' And of course it is so important to them for so many reasons, so often they do not engage with their parents or others in authority when this happens.

We need to give young people the tools to manage this themselves. I think it would be fantastic if there were more younger people actually delivering cybersafety messages to other young people, telling them: 'This is what happens in your world. This is what we do online. This is us on Facebook. Here is our page, and this is what you can and can't or should and shouldn't be doing.' All of those things matter to young people. They actually want to know what they can and cannot do safely.

I went to one of my primary schools and asked the young people there how many were on Facebook. These are children under the age of 12. We know that they are supposed to be over 13 to be on Facebook, but 75 per cent of the young people in that class put their hands up. They were all on Facebook. I asked them, 'How old are you saying you are when you sign up to be on Facebook?' Some of them said 16, and some said 18. Those children would be in receipt of inappropriate content as a result of that. Also, they were not aware that Facebook owns the photos, the words and everything else they put on Facebook. I hate to say it, but just as so many men do not read the fine print—more men than women do not read the fine print—the situation is the same with young boys on Facebook. More of the young girls were aware that Facebook owned everything they put on that website, such as photos, but the young boys were not as aware. A lot of young people were not aware that, despite the fact that they had deleted something, that material was still out there and would be there forever.

I heard different stories about young people's experiences on Facebook. I even spoke to some parents who would take photos of their children in their school uniforms and put them on Facebook. Any mature age predator would then know exactly what school that young person was going to and where they could access them if they chose to. So there are a range of issues that we need to manage.

But it is not just the physical side, which is something that young people on Facebook do not understand. I asked one young school child how many friends they had on Facebook, and it was almost like a competition—I need to be the one with the most. But, in being the one with the most, the risk is greater. I asked them, 'Do you actually know all these people?' 'Yes,' they replied, 'because they are my friends.' I asked, 'Do you know whether it is a 60 year-old person or a person of your own age?' The answer was that, no, they did not know. These were the simple things that a young person under the age of 12 was not necessarily aware of. Because they are young and innocent they assumed that everybody they accepted as a friend was indeed a friend and of the same age as them, which quite often they were not.

But it was not just that. I asked them, 'What do you talk about online with these 500 friends?' as one young person had. They replied, 'We talk about home and about mum and dad. We talk about when we are going on holidays. And we might talk about the fact that grandma cannot come and look after the house while we are away.' They would talk about when it was their birthday, when it was mum's or dad's birthday and who grandma was. Over a period of time these young people will be far more at risk of identity theft than they currently are, because collating the information they have in all innocence provided will give others an opportunity to steal their identity after they get their first credit card. Someone may collect enough information to change their password.

So there are some real issues facing young people, which we may not have had to face, out there alive and well. That is just on the Facebook side of things and perhaps on other social websites. But then there is the issue of using the internet for online banking or the myriad other things people might do online.

Equally, I have concerns about sexting. It is a major issue that has a very concerning impact on young people. At some stage, perhaps when they are at high school, they will have a special friendship with another young person that they may both believe is a very genuine relationship and they may send photos of parts of themselves to each other. But by one avenue or another those images can end up in the broader public arena, and that can do an incredible amount of damage. I had evidence from families of how it has destroyed young people and the value they place in themselves.

An employer once rang me, asking what to do about the fact that he had just received a photo showing a 16-year-old employee completely naked. According to the Australian Federal Police, if the individual saves or passes on that particular photo they are engaging in child pornography, which is a federal offence. So these are the issues. The employer was also concerned that every other member of the staff had received the photo. For that young person, who probably in all innocence provided those photos to someone, they will be there forever.

Of the work done by the committee, recommendations 1 to 3 in the report are very important. I am hoping that the minister follows many of those. I encourage all of us in our roles in parliament to do our best out in the community to inform and educate young people and keep them aware and alert. I encourage members to read this report and think how you can do something like that for the people you meet. Again, I like the idea of young people engaging with other young people, because they will take so much more notice of that.

I go to schools and meet fabulous young people with all the good intentions in the world and they want information and to be safe. They want to be aware and alert but they want to use this medium and they are going to. Part of what we need to do with this report is give them the tools to be safe, aware and alert in a way that will carry through to mature age. When they start doing tax and banking online it could evolve into online security that is a lifetime commitment. That is equally as important. I was involved in a previous inquiry where we heard so many stories of mature-age people who were subject to various forms of online scams and attacks. Right throughout the community now, I would think that every member in this place is seeing constantly in the papers the latest report about a young person on a social website. It was brought up so often by these young people from high schools as being something that influenced how happy or not they were at school and how they could cope in their life simply through this cyberworld that they live in and the actual damage that could be done to them in an emotional and physical sense.

This is a very timely report. As I said, it is extremely relevant, and the engagement of young people is critical to the results that this report has delivered. I would, again, commend all of the committee who were so involved in it. I see this as an opportunity to help young people deal with the issues that they have. I commend the report, the chair, the deputy chair and everyone involved. I am hoping that this report will be the beginning of engaging young people in a direct sense in their own safety and in their own futures in whatever way they engage with the internet and that when they are online they are able to enjoy it and be safe and protected and can pass that knowledge onto others.

The one thing I say to young people is to pay attention if they see a young person around them at school or wherever they are in a social sense and see them receive a message and either go very quiet and not want to read that message in front of them or go to the toilet or somewhere else and then come out visibly upset. We have a good program in Western Australia on other matters with young people that is called 'Are You Okay?' I say to these young people, 'Be prepared to ask your mates: are you okay? When you see them visibly upset when they receive a message—be it a computer message or other message—just ask them whether they are okay because quite often they are not and they just might need you to ask that question and encourage them to get support, whether it is from you or from someone else who can help but not someone that they would perhaps fear would take away the technology that is often their link to being mature, their link to the world and their link to engaging. That is all part of this report. I commend it to the House.

Amanda Rishworth (Kingston, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am going to speak very briefly, but as a member of the Joint Select Committee on Cyber-Safety I would like to commend the committee's report, High-wire act: cyber-safety and the young. I was very pleased to be a part of this report because it allowed us to connect with a variety of different stakeholders and people involved in this area. It is not just young people who get caught up in some of these issues on the internet. In fact, what we did hear on the committee time and time again is that parents often have a fear of the unknown. When they do not know what is happening on the internet they can become quite worried and fearful. Part of the recommendations are looking at what we can do to empower young people to stay safe on the internet but also empower parents to feel that they are in control. There is a recommendation in the report for a self-assessment tool that allows people, whether they be parents or young people, to gauge exactly what they know and do not know.

For young people it was a different issue. They are so familiar with this technology and so comfortable with it that every now and again they do get caught out on some of the technicalities and localities and are less fearful about this. This was a very wide-ranging report. We as a committee did a survey. I think it is unique for House of Representatives, joint and select committees to directly go to young people. There were 60,000 comments received by the committee and over 7,000 responses directly from young people so that we could hear what they had to say. That was an important part of the committee's work. I must commend the chair, Senator Dana Wortley, and the deputy chair, the member for Mitchell. They worked very hard on this. The chair definitely took this up with a lot of passion and a lot of dedication. Hearing directly from young people was critically important.

This being a new area, it is at times difficult to find out where to go to report things—if people have experienced bullying, for example—or to learn that you are not alone. One of the recommendations that has come out is, while a lot of great tools have come out on what to do about cyberbullying, to centralise that and have a portal through which people can directly access information about where to go and what to do. This is a really important recommendation.

Another area that we looked at is what is happening in schools and with teachers. A lot of young people spend most of their time at school and with teachers during the week. We need to look at training teachers on how to watch out for this issue and how to be involved in this issue. We do not want them to preach to young people because, as I have said, young people know a lot more than a lot of older people sometimes about how to navigate the internet. But we want to teach them how to support young people in the constructive use of the internet. We want to teach them how to intervene if there is a problem online. Teacher training and cultures within school environments are things that this report makes some very good recommendations about.

There are also some regulatory recommendations about privacy. This is not just an issue concerning young people. A lot of people do not know what to expect when they go on to things like Facebook. While there is a lot of information out there, it is not always clear. One of the issues that I raised in the committee was the fact that privacy settings are made without notification. Privacy settings get changed and then suddenly your information has become available after you have set up that Facebook page doing everything that you could to protect your privacy. When a setting changes, you are not notified about it. Or, if you are notified, that notification is not very clear. When it comes to social networking sites, especially when offensive material is put up, there is room to improve things. While the government is somewhat restricted because this is an international issue, there are certainly regulations that we can look at to help ensure that people are safe.

But it is also about empowering young people, parents and teachers to protect themselves online. It is about helping them understand the gaps in their knowledge—things that they might not have thought about. For parents, it is about facing some of the unknowns, some of the things that they are not confident about and are concerned about.

Another recommendation, which was touched on by the previous speaker, was to do with the importance of peer-to-peer education campaigns. As I have mentioned, there is a gap. This was certainly evident in the survey. There is sometimes a gap between generations in their understanding of the internet and what can be done. I certainly know that. When I go to schools I see young people on laptops in year 2 and year 3 doing their research on the internet—these children are six and seven—and those children are often a lot more savvy than I am. There is certainly a gap, so having that peer-to-peer discussion or education is also critically important.

There was a lot of work done on this. I would like to thank all the members of the committee. I would also like to thank the secretariat, who worked very hard on this. I would like to thank all of the young people and others who gave evidence for their participation. It was greatly valued. It does provide a bit of a model for how committees can work in the future—going out and directly talking to young people or whichever different group is concerned. Directly consulting is a good idea. With 7,000 responses, this was of great interest, with young people really wanting to have their say. On that note, I commend the report to the House and thank everyone involved.

Debated adjourned.