Sid Sidebottom (Braddon, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is directed to the Treasurer. Treasurer, why is it important to address the cost of carbon pollution through a market based mechanism?

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for Braddon for a very important question because the government, unlike the opposition, believes that climate change is real and that we do need to transform our economy. But this is a very big reform for our economy, a very big structural reform. One of the reasons Australia has had 20 years of continuous growth is past governments and members of this House have signed up to fundamental market based reforms, which have given us a strength and resilience that have served us well and that have given us 20 continuous years of growth. This is a reform that we must embark on to ensure that we have another 20 years of continuous growth and do not fall behind the rest of the world. That is why economists like Nichols Stern and Ross Garnaut are telling us that there is a fundamental problem here that must be fixed. The problem is that the largest polluters just continue to pump pollution into the atmosphere, and that has cost. It has cost to the environment, it has cost to the community and it has cost to our economy. That is why we must have a market based approach to deal with it. We need to give the largest polluters the incentive to reduce carbon pollution and that is what we have to do. That is why we describe this as a fundamental market based reform. Of course, we are not alone in this view. That is what the Treasury believes we must do. That is what the Productivity Commission believes we must do. It is what the OECD believes we must do. But all the oddballs on the other side of the House are now in climate change denial.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Treasurer should really be careful with his language.

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It has become very clear in the House today that there are many on that side of the House who are climate change sceptics.

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, on a point of order: as I have been asked to withdraw Pinocchio in the past, I think the Treasurer should be asked to withdraw oddball.

Honourable Members:

Honourable members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Minister for Defence will withdraw.

Stephen Smith (Perth, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw, Mr Speaker.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Whilst not calling upon the Deputy Prime Minister to withdraw, it is starting to be really hard to see how the point in his response is directly relevant to the question, as it was asked. The Treasurer has the call and he will be directly relevant to the question.

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The point I was making was that those opposite do not believe in the power of markets any more. This is a fundamental point. Nor do they apparently believe in the science of climate change. That is a powerful, destructive combination. Not believing in climate change, not believing in global warming and not believing in markets makes them almost the equivalent to the central planners of Russia, decades ago.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Treasurer will not debate as much.

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They are in denial all of the time about the basic facts, not believing in the basic science and not believing in the basic economics. About 18 months ago some of them did believe in the power of markets, the power of markets to deal with carbon pollution. This is what the shadow Treasurer had to say to David Uren and Lenore Taylor, in 2010:

I was acting industry minister in 2002 when Peter Costello, David Kemp and I argued … in the Howard cabinet that we should have an ETS.

He then went on to say—

I believe the market mechanism is the best way to price a commodity.

That is what the shadow Treasurer, Mr Hockey, believed in 2002. That is what he told a couple of prominent authors in their book about the power of markets and where the view was in the Howard cabinet. It is not the view now. That is why I do describe them—like the British conservative politician did—as oddballs, because they do not believe in the power of markets and they do not believe in the science of climate change. I can see the member for Wentworth over there somewhat embarrassed by the company that he now keeps. The shadow Treasurer has had more positions on climate change than hot dinners and there are plenty of others on that side of the House that fit into the same category. We on this side of the House approach this fundamental—(Time expired)

Joe Hockey (North Sydney, Liberal Party, Shadow Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I seek leave to table the minutes of the special meeting of the federal parliamentary Labor Party caucus where it says, ‘Wayne and Julia said abandon the ETS.’

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for North Sydney will return to his seat.

Bruce Billson (Dunkley, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Small Business, Competition Policy and Consumer Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Billson interjecting

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Swan interjecting

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Treasurer and the member for Dunkley might be given the opportunity to have an hour to discuss their debate outside. The angelic member for North Sydney will get back to being quiet.

Honourable Members:

Honourable members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He hoodwinked me by his angelic presence and he approached the dispatch box outside of the procedures that I have allowed and has been very lucky.