Jason Wood (La Trobe, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Community Safety, Migrant Services and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Hansard source

I also wish to rise and speak on the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Amendment (AFP Powers and Other Matters) Bill 2022. The bill basically allows the extension of powers for another 12 months. It is very important that the sunset clause is continued. It was when I was first elected in 2004, under the Howard government, that legislation regarding control orders, preventative detention orders, and emergency stop and seizure powers was introduced. Sometimes we actually forget why these laws are required. We obviously think back to September 11. But Australia has been very fortunate due to the magnificent detective work of our law enforcement agencies and our intelligence agencies. Over the years they have done an incredible job of protecting Australians.

We can go back to the matter involving Benbrika. He was charged, along with a number of young people, for planning terrorist attacks in Melbourne—from memory, at the MCG and Federation Square. Benbrika had been booted out of the Preston mosque. He had a very extreme views. He actually cultivated and used young people to recruit and plan to commit these attacks. From memory, he was found as a result an operation called Operation Pendennis. If it wasn't for the great law enforcement work, these awful terrorist attacks would have occurred at the MCG, Federation Square and other places. Legislation has since been put in place to keep high-risk terrorist offenders behind bars. I note that the now Opposition leader, the previous Minister for Home Affairs, Peter Dutton, fought very hard for this legislation. Benbrika has been kept in prison for the simple reason that he hasn't changed his ways and views, and, if he does get out, he will be of high risk to the community.

As I said, sometimes we forget the great work of detectives across the country. I was going through speeches I've made on counterterrorism, and I am reminded that the Greens have opposed every single piece of counterterrorism legislation. Back in 2016, police foiled terrorist attacks that were planned for Anzac Day, awful attacks in which there were plans to stab and shoot police officers and members of the public. As I said in a speech I made in December 2016:

I remember how alert the police were at Anzac Day services and how concerned they were for their own safety. One of those charged was Sevdet Ramadan Besim, 19 years of age.

That's the thing—young people are often recruited in the terrorism world. Further:

After his plan was foiled, he pleaded guilty to a plot to run over and then behead a police officer before using his gun in a rampage. In the Victorian Supreme Court in September 2016, Besim was given a 10-year jail sentence, and must serve at least 7½ years …

There were also advanced plans to kidnap members of the public in Sydney and Brisbane and then behead them on camera and release the footage—absolutely shocking. Two schoolboys, who were allegedly preparing for a terror attack in Sydney's south-west, with police alleging they had links to Islamic State, were arrested and refused bail in October 2016. There was a plan to detonate bombs at a Mother's Day running event.

Again, I thank law enforcement agencies for the great work they've done. And it was back in the Howard days that this legislation was introduced.

When it comes to control orders, sometimes members of the public don't actually understand the need for them and their use. Control orders are used when, for example, police may be waiting on a court case and the person involved hasn't been remanded in custody—most times they would be remanded in custody—and there are still concerns about them. They will potentially be required to wear a leg bracelet to monitor their behaviour. Orders could be made that they cannot use social media or be in contact with other people. From memory, control orders are in place for a 12-month period.

To be honest, something else I've been fighting for for a number of years is what I call a community based order. I had this in the case of Numan Haider, who tried to stab two police at Endeavour Hills Police Station. Numan Haider was a person who was hanging around the Dandenong shopping centre with what was at the time the IS flag. Police didn't really have any powers to charge him; they just had powers to move him on from the shopping centre. The two law enforcement officers—I've actually met them in the past—arranged to meet with him at the Endeavour Hills Police Station. He pulled a knife out on them and tried to stab them and was subsequently shot.

One of the gaps is community based orders, and it is more the states who've failed on this. It could again be Islamic extremists, or it could be white supremacists; in recent years, the concerns have been more about the movement of white supremacists. This came from my background when I was formerly a member of the Victoria Police counterterrorism unit, so I have some knowledge of it. I again thank all my former colleagues and those still working in the area. The concern for the police is that someone may be watching beheading videos or hanging out with others who are talking about extremism. I was on a delegation a number of years ago when we met with a Swedish counterterrorism expert, and he pointed out to me and our delegation that, if you're simply around all day talking about jihad and terrorist attacks, sadly, something may eventually take place.

With this community based protection order, for example, in the case of people like Numan Haider, the police or someone else—it could be a family member, a religious leader or a friend—could take the person before a magistrate. The magistrate would hear the evidence about their concerns and could potentially put in place an order that the person who they have concerns about go and undertake a deradicalisation program, if there is such a thing—most of them haven't been effective—or at least get counselling or have an order that they have to stop watching these beheading videos or, in the case of someone like Benbrika, stop hanging around with someone who's a bad influence and is encouraging or inciting others to get involved in the world of terrorism. I still think there's a great need for that. Sadly, it always takes something really bad to happen before the legislation is put in place.

That brings me to preventative detention orders. At the start, when this was introduced under the Howard government, I was actually critical of this because it didn't go far enough. A preventative detention order is what it sounds like: it is to stop a terrorist attack. If a person—or it could be a number of people—is picked up by the police, and there's not enough evidence to arrest them under part IC of the Crimes Act of the Commonwealth, the person will be picked up under a preventative detention order and held—in police terms, kept on ice—to try to make sure that they aren't planning a terrorist attack.

The concern I had—and I raised my concerns with a number of attorneys-general of both political persuasions—was that law enforcement needed the ability, if a person were in custody or under preventative detention, to actually ask that person if they were planning anything or to ask about a co-offender who they were worried might be about to commit a terrorist attack. This legislation at the time didn't allow that. Police and law enforcement could not ask one question on this, and anything which was asked couldn't be used in evidence. From my understanding and knowledge when it comes to police investigations, counterterrorism investigations are super, super complex.

The good news when it comes to preventative detention is that now police and law enforcement do have that power. I note that it hasn't been used at the Commonwealth level, and I suspect that's because the state police have also put in legislation similar to what would be at the Commonwealth level. We need to do everything we can when it comes to making Australians safe and giving law enforcement the tools to do that.

I have some figures here on the number of those charged. A hundred and forty-four people have been charged in 71 counterterrorism related operations since 2004, so that's pretty amazing work by our law enforcement to go in there and prevent so many terrorist attacks. Sadly, we've seen terrorist attacks overseas, in the Bali bombings, where Australians died, and London has had so many.

The previous Liberal governments have been very strong when it comes to supporting the Australian Federal Police. Since 2014 the government has strengthened our national defence against terrorism, investing an additional $2.3 billion. The coalition has always had a very strong record in this space, providing funding of $1.7 billion for the Australian Federal Police and investing over $1.3 billion for the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation in the 2021-22 budget. As part of the plan, we released a new counterterrorism strategy. An additional investment of $86 million was provided in the budget to protect the community from threats posed by high-risk terrorist offenders, $66.9 million for continued support for the High Risk Terrorist Offender regime, and the implementation of the Extended Supervision Order Framework. The government also listed 28 terrorist organisations under the Criminal Code.

I note this bill will go for review to the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence and Security, which I think is very important. That committee does great work. I was a member of that committee a number of years back, and they do great work going through the legislation.

I pay tribute to and pass on my sorrow to all the victims of terrorism, especially the family members. I always say this—when people think about events, whether they be Christmastime, birthdays or anniversaries, most of us look at them as exciting times, sadly, when people have lost loved ones in terrorist attacks they are always wondering why. When you look at people like those involved in the Bali bombings—there was one of the Sikhs over there who was involved in these attacks—they don't commit the attacks. It's like with the Australian embassy bombing—I saw the footage for that. The person involved in using the truck to go into the gates had no knowledge of how to drive a truck, and basically drove past it two or three times before they went in there and committed that attack. Sadly, a number of people—not Australians, but other people—lost their lives. We never can take this for granted.

Australia has also done fantastic work when it comes to overseas, providing funding for various counterterrorism centres around the world and in the south-east to support other law enforcement agencies, which has been so important. I thank all the other members, and I thank the government, which I can nearly say is in line with Liberal and Nationals members when it comes to this legislation. As I said right from the start, under the Howard government, when these powers were first spoken about, it was very, very controversial. I remember speaking on the 7.30 Report, saying it didn't go far enough because of the preventative detention measures. This is legislation which is very, very important.

My final point for those who voted for Greens at the election, they have never supported any counterterrorism legislation to make Australians safe, and they always seem to go on the side of the terrorists, rather than the side of protecting Australians.

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