I thank the member for his question. As I've said previously in the House and as the Ombudsman's report accurately reflects, the use of income averaging to raise debts has been a longstanding practice of government. Indeed, it is so longstanding that, in 2009, 16 per cent of debts raised from a sample of 500 were raised solely or partially using income averaging, and in 2011 that jumped up; 24 per cent of debts that year were raised wholly or partially from income averaging. That was done from a sample of 500, which demonstrates the longstanding nature of this practice, and those ministers in 2009 and 2011—