Warren Snowdon (Lingiari, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for External Territories) Share this | Hansard source

I thank the member for Grey for putting this notice of motion on our business for today. Let me say at the outset that I have no in-principle opposition to a debit card. I have made that clear in the past. I was very opposed to the BasicsCard, which was introduced in 2007 as a result of the Northern Territory National Emergency Response by the Howard government. It stigmatised people. It was selective in its use. It did not apply across the board. It was very difficult to use and people found it severely wanting, including commercial providers of services. For example, commercial providers of services were excluded. In one instance I can name, because they were a suitcase shop they were excluded, while Woolworths, who also sold suitcases, were not. That was a major issue. However, at the time the legislation for this was introduced, I said:

So, if a person falls within a category identified as a compulsory participant, they will have their payments restricted. This happened under income management when it was broadly applied. This would inevitably mean that, regardless of your status and regardless of your history of being an employer or an employee, paying taxes, raising children and being a responsible member of the community, you will be impacted by this. You will automatically have your income debited through the debit system and have 80 per cent of your income quarantined.

That remains the case. I do not think there should be a blanket application of this debit card. We understand that the majority of people who are subject to this card are able to manage their own finances. I do not believe that a blanket approach is warranted. We now know it has been used for six months—as we see in Ceduna and also at Kununurra. It is true to say, however, that communities are a bit conflicted by the outcome so far. Some are claiming, as the member for Grey has done, that gambling and alcohol have been significantly reduced—I hope that is the case—while others say the community has only been superficially consulted and there have been not significant changes. I think the consultation issue is extremely important.

There is some qualitative research which has been done in the East Kimberley which tells us some of the following: cashless welfare card holders are using their cards as a bartering tool—this is happening—exchanging the debit card for alcohol and drugs and resorting to cheaper, heavily intoxicating liquor to suit their budget. Cashless welfare card holders are being exploited. Taxis and shops are holding onto the cards when the cardholders pay. People trading with the CWC holder are purchasing items on the card that are worth far more than the item exchanged. Illiterate CWC holders are at a disadvantage. All prior financial obligations have to be arranged, loans deducted et cetera, and they are more likely to be ripped off when trading. There is a whole range of issues and I could go on and on about the list of issues that is confronting people. There is a question about sly grogging and drug dealing. I think these cards have got to be done in conjunction with other measures such as a banned drinkers register in the Northern Territory—which should apply in Kununurra and does not.

I also make the observation that retailers can opt out. They do not have to be part of this scheme. I have a list of organisations in the member's electorate who have opted out and organisations in the member for Durack's electorate who have also opted out. It is not compulsory for people who sell liquor to accept the card. This was the case with Opal fuel and we legislated in this place to make sure—

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