Senate debates

Monday, 11 May 2015

Questions without Notice: Take Note of Answers

Answers to Questions

3:04 pm

Photo of Doug CameronDoug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by ministers to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today relating to the 2015-16 Budget.

This really is a government in chaos. This really is a dysfunctional government. This is a government who would stand here and tell the Australian public and this Senate that budgets are about choices. We know budgets are about choices, and what Labor has chosen to do is not cut pensions, not cut the health system, not cut the education system, and make sure that young kids that cannot get a job do not end up with six months with absolutely no income. These are the choices that Labor takes.

What about the federal government? They went to the last election and they argued that there would be no cuts to pensions, no cuts to health and no cuts to education. Then we did not even find out about the cuts until the first budget—the worst budget in living memory; the worst budget this country has ever seen. We are about to go to the second coalition budget tomorrow, and the first budget is still a shambles. The first budget was so bad that almost one-third of the coalition backbench moved against the Prime Minister—including six ministers. That is how bad the budget was. The budget was a budget that the government could not sustain. It was a budget that the public looked at and said, 'We are not prepared to accept cuts to health, cuts to education, cuts to welfare, when these were areas the Abbott government promised not to touch.'

This is a dysfunctional government which cannot be trusted—they continually misrepresent their position to the Australian public. We saw an example of that again today when Senator Abetz responded to Senator Wong, who asked about cuts to the health system. Senator Abetz indicated there were no cuts to the health system; we have simply had a reallocation. I would put to Senator Abetz: have a look at your own budget paper. Have a look at the chart on page 7 of the 2014-15 budget overview. What does that chart show? It shows a cut to health funding for public hospitals of $57 billion. This is a reallocation, according to Senator Abetz. According to the government's own budget papers, it is a cut of $57 billion—and that was not the end of it for this government in terms of attacks on the health system. A $7 co-payment was supposedly going to fund some massive research funding. We have seen the big backflip on that. Every doctor you speak to, every group you speak to and every eminent health economist you speak to will tell you that putting a $7 cost on going to see a doctor will result in even bigger costs when people end up not getting timely medical intervention and end up in hospital. That leads to massive costs.

This is a government that has no credibility when it comes to economic matters. This is a government that said it would reduce the budget deficit—and what do we have? We have an increase in the budget deficit of $68 billion under this dysfunctional government—a government that is now split between the National Party and the Liberal Party. Let us see how the National Party stands up for those families on $65,000 a year who will lose $6,000 a year because of the blackmail that this government is going to try and impose on this Senate. They say there will be no improvements to their budget bottom line unless we give in to their blackmail. We will not be giving in to the coalition's blackmail. (Time expired)

3:10 pm

Photo of Arthur SinodinosArthur Sinodinos (NSW, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

The first point I make is that the context was missing from the questions we received from the Labor Party today—and the context is very clear. The terms of trade, export prices to import prices, peaked in 2011. The national income of the country, the stimulus coming from the terms of trade, peaked, and ever since then the terms of trade have been coming off. What did Labor do during the period 2011 through to 2013, when they were in charge of the budget? They continued to spend. They did not trim their cloth accordingly. They kept promising budget surpluses. They kept raising the expectations of the Australian people. At the Press Club the Treasurer, Mr Swan, talked about how he would keep cutting until he got to a surplus, even if it meant offsetting the impact of the economy on the budget—the automatic stabilisers. Those are the lengths to which he was prepared to go in order to claim that he would get a surplus. They kept spending in the face of the revenue pressures that they were under. The result was to bequeath us an emerging spending and budget problem that had to be met.

This is the context. The context for us today is that we have to get spending under control and we have to get productivity up. We have to double the rate of productivity growth if we are to get the average annual increase in national income that we have had for the last few decades. That is the equation we face—and we face that against an ageing population. There is this idea that we can be in denial of these budget questions, as if the good old days can just roll on. Well, they are not rolling on. The Australian economy has been like a balloon that the air is coming out of as the terms of trade have turned. We have to adjust to that emerging reality. We have to adjust to an ageing population, so spending has to be sustainable.

In the short term, what has the government been doing in areas like education? School funding was going up: by 9.3 per cent from 2014 to 2015, 8.2 per cent from 2015 to 2016 and 9.1 per cent from 2016 to 2017. The government was trying to protect the economy in the short term while also seeking to put in place longer-term measures, including measures like raising the retirement age to 70 by 2035—not by tomorrow. The pension changes that were talked about last year were about adjusting the rate of indexation. They were not about cutting pensions; they were about adjusting the rate at which pensions continue to increase. That was the basis of the debate. It was a complete red herring to talk about cuts. Pensions have continued to go up.

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

You are a fibber!

Photo of Eric AbetzEric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr Deputy President, on a point of order—

Photo of Gavin MarshallGavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order! There is no need for the point of order. Senator Conroy, the President has ruled that words that infer the inference that you are making in those comments are in fact disorderly, and I would ask you to withdraw.

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

I withdraw.

Photo of Gavin MarshallGavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Conroy.

Photo of Arthur SinodinosArthur Sinodinos (NSW, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

That is the challenge that we face. As a country we have to face up to it, because, if our debt-to-GDP ratio continues to rise, long before it gets to 50 or 60 per cent the ratings agencies and others will be asking: is this sustainable? Can we keep borrowing to fund the ordinary expenses of government? The fact is we cannot. We have to rein that spending in. We do have to do things on the revenue side as well—and that is where the tax discussion paper comes in. That is the proper context in which to have a look at the balance between the different types of taxes and the issue of the costs and benefits of the various tax concessions that are around. That debate will occur, and there is a structured process under this government for doing that. There is a structured process through the tax paper.

But what there will not be under this government is a denial of our responsibility in the face of an ageing population to make spending as sustainable as possible and, where possible, to increase the productivity of government spending and still deliver the service but in a more effective and efficient way, so that we are saving those resources and putting them to better use.

There is no point spending billions and billions on public debt interest which could ultimately go on better health, education and welfare. We cannot live in a fool's paradise. Labor want the fool's paradise to roll on. They think something will always bail us out. We are taking control of and managing our destiny so it does not fall into the hands of ratings agencies and others who would dictate much harsher terms. That is the point of what the government is doing—taking control of our destiny.

3:15 pm

Photo of Helen PolleyHelen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Aged Care) Share this | | Hansard source

That was a remarkable contribution. The speaker was talking about managing the Prime Minister's destiny, because he is about removing him from being Prime Minister of this country. The budget that will be brought down tomorrow is a budget that is all about saving Tony Abbott's job. It is not about doing the right thing. If Senator Sinodinos was honest with the Australian community, he would now acknowledge that changing the indexation of the pension in this country was about cutting pensioners' benefits. There is not a pensioner in this country who believes Tony Abbott and this government. They know that he cannot be trusted.

In answer to my question in relation to cuts to the pension, Senator Fifield said, 'We haven't made any cuts that were going to have effect in this term.' That is not what Tony Abbott said as Leader of the Opposition when he went out the night before the election and promised that there would be no change to the pension, no cuts to education and no cuts to health. We know that he has failed that test, because there have been cuts to education and there certainly have been cuts to the health budget. We know that they were about changing the indexation of the pension, which meant—

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Cutting them!

Photo of Helen PolleyHelen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Aged Care) Share this | | Hansard source

It was a cut. You are quite right, Senator Conroy: it was a cut. Eighty dollars a week was going to be the real impact for Australian pensioners.

As we know—and, yes, one could be forgiven for thinking that Mr Morrison was actually the Treasurer—the Treasurer, Mr Hockey, has been sidelined.

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

That's generous!

Photo of Helen PolleyHelen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Aged Care) Share this | | Hansard source

That's just me; I am a generous person. This government is all about saving the Prime Minister's job and trying to keep people like Senator Sinodinos at bay. But the Australian community are the ones who are left wanting. Australia's pensioners do not trust this government. They do not trust them. We will wait and see what the detail is in this budget, but my theory is that cuts to the pension have not been shelved; they have just been put in the bottom drawer, because this budget is all about saving Tony's job.

Cuts of $1.3 billion from pensioners' concessions—concessions which have helped to pay their rates, transport costs, electricity costs and water bills—have been a big blow. The government has said that the states should really cover those costs while, at the same time, they are cutting the funding to the state governments—as part of their grand plan to put the pressure on the states to increase the GST. That is what it is all about.

But the Australian community are much smarter than that. They are onto this government. They do not trust Tony Abbott, they do not trust Malcolm Turnbull

Photo of Eric AbetzEric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr Abbott. Mr Turnbull.

Photo of Helen PolleyHelen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Aged Care) Share this | | Hansard source

and they do not trust Ms Bishop. It does not matter who leads this government. I think August is when they are thinking about rolling the Treasurer and the Prime Minister. But it will not matter who the Prime Minister is of this government, because the Australian community have lost faith in it, because quite clearly they were lied to. There are no ifs and buts. They were not just misled; it was a lie to say that there would be no change to the pension in this country and no cuts to health and education.

In my home state of Tasmania, we have the notorious 'three amigos': Mr Nikolic, Mr Whiteley and Mr Hutchinson. They have all denied that there was going to be any change. In fact, they have come out and accused other senators and me of misleading the Tasmanian community.

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

No!

Photo of Helen PolleyHelen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Aged Care) Share this | | Hansard source

They have.

Photo of Sue LinesSue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

What have you been doing?

Photo of Helen PolleyHelen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Aged Care) Share this | | Hansard source

I have actually been out talking to the pensioners and listening to their concerns and telling them the truth, and that is that this government cannot be trusted and this change to the indexation of pensions—which the government have now finally put in the bottom drawer—was all about reducing their benefits.

Mr Hockey—I think he is still the Treasurer today and at least for a few more weeks—has been described by a cabinet colleague as a 'hole in the heart of the government.' I would have to say that I do not believe this government has a heart, because last year's budget was a totally unfair budget. It was unfair, and I have no doubt tomorrow's budget will be nothing different. (Time expired)

3:20 pm

Photo of Linda ReynoldsLinda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

I too rise to take note of answers in question time today, and I have to say that I do it with a very heavy heart. Having just returned from a week at Gallipoli with thousands of other Australians, where our spirit of national unity, patriotism and pride was almost overwhelming, I came back with a modicum of optimism that 12 months after the last budget and after 12 months of mindless obstructionism and blocking good government and budget measures to fix your mess—

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

You're going to cut the pension!

Photo of Linda ReynoldsLinda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

With the interjections of Senator Conroy and the previous two Labor speakers, it is very clear that the optimism with which I returned is already very sadly shattered. It was supposed to be the year of big ideas—remember that: Bill Shorten and the 'year of big ideas'? Quite frankly, I do not seem to recall a single one, apart from some tax increases

Far from coming back to finding an opposition who is now willing to work with the government, there is still an absence of policy ideas on how to start living within our means and continuing to grow the economy—

Senator Conroy interjecting

Senator Conroy, you are just playing the man not the policy ideas. Let me remind you that when you came to government not only was the country living within its means but it had about $20 billion in the bank and no debt. You wasted that with pink batts, school halls, an NBN that did not deliver any broadband to the nation—a litany of wasted money. Consequently for taxpayers, and some are sitting in the gallery now, we are now borrowing $100 million a day. I bet you they did not know that. The government are borrowing $100 million a day to pay for your prolific expenditure. That is the situation we now find ourselves in.

Senator Cameron was right: it is a matter of choice. But it is a choice of how we start to find better ways to live within our means and to grow the economy. That is exactly what this budget will be about tomorrow. It is making choices on how to best spend our money. We spend $150 billion a year of taxpayers' money. In fact, nearly nine out of 10 income taxpayers in this country now pay for our welfare benefits. Welfare benefits are not entitlements; they are there as benefits for people who need the assistance. Government always has to make sure that the money of those people sitting in the gallery today is best spent for those who best need it.

It is also about a choice between infrastructure investment, encouraging small business and creating new jobs. You conveniently like to forget that we have now created something like 80,000 more jobs than when you left government.

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Unemployment is going up.

Senator Lines interjecting

Photo of Linda ReynoldsLinda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

The truth hurts, doesn't it? By you very disappointedly playing the Treasurer and the Prime Minister and not talking about policy options—

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

It's you lot!

Photo of Linda ReynoldsLinda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

If you do not like what we are coming up with, come up with other options of where we can find the savings for the new expenditures. If you want it, start stumping up and stop this ridiculous playing of individuals and start providing options. If you do not like what this side is coming up with, stop playing the individuals and come up with policy. We still have not heard a single thing. You know as well as I know that the budget, like the rest of government, is a team activity. It is not just about the Treasurer, the finance minister, the Prime Minister, the members of the Expenditure Review Committee of cabinet or about all government members; it is also about everybody in parliament. Every single one of us who were elected by the people of Australia have a role to play in the budget.

We have been doing our role, and it is time at this budget for the opposition to stump up. Instead of taking great pride in destroying the budget and not playing your part in the team, you have got to start playing your role as an opposition and as elected representatives of the people of Australia and of your states. You have just as much a role in passing a budget that is good for Australia and good for the economy. Instead, you pick off individuals because you have absolutely no policies with which to contribute. Taking pride in destroying the economy is nothing to be proud of, Senator Conroy. (Time expired)

3:25 pm

Photo of Sue LinesSue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

If it was not so serious it would be amusing being invited to be on the Liberal team. We are in the Labor team. Today in question time it was as if Mr Hockey is not the Treasurer anymore. We barely heard his name mentioned. And today on Sky News it seemed that Senator Birmingham well and truly outlined the Abbott government's economic credentials when he said that Joe Hockey will deliver a budget that 'continues to show a steady trajectory back towards deficit'. Anyone can work out what Senator Birmingham meant when he said that—

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Back towards deficit?

Photo of Sue LinesSue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Yes, that is what he said—back towards deficit. Finally, we have a frontbencher acknowledging the chaos and dysfunction of the Abbott government. They cannot even get their message right. Then Mr Barnaby said of Mr Hockey

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr Barnaby Joyce?

Photo of Sue LinesSue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Yes—Mr Barnaby Joyce. He said: 'I don't want him cartwheeling around in front of the media. I want him behind his desk.'

Here we have Mr Hockey being accused of doing cartwheels. Mr Hockey has been described in the media as the 'phantom' Treasurer. Mr Hockey has been described as being the hole in the heart of the Abbott government. What about that awkward photo last week? That awkward photo of our Prime Minister and our Treasurer—thank goodness I am not in that team—with that awkward hand on the arm. What was that about? It certainly looked to me as if the Treasurer was definitely not part of the story. And where have the key budget announcements come from?

Photo of Stephen ConroyStephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Not from Joe!

Photo of Sue LinesSue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | | Hansard source

They certainly have not come from Mr Hockey. They have come largely from Mr Morrison, so perhaps Mr Morrison is the Treasurer who will take up that formal role once the budget is out. So we have had Mr Morrison and the Prime Minister making all of the announcements. We certainly have not seen very much of Mr Hockey at all, except Mr Hockey is quoted in the media as saying, 'The electorate realised that good policy needs to be implemented.' They sure have. We know that voters in Australia have completely lost faith that the Abbott government is ever going to deliver good policy. The Australian voters sure know that, and they know that good policy has not been delivered since this government was elected. They know the Abbott government is absolutely incapable of delivering good policy.

Here we are, I think for the first time in our history, still debating last year's budget on the eve of the next budget, the second budget of the Abbott government. Here we are still with an unsettled budget from last year, and what we have seen from the government is backflips on budgets. We were going to have this GP tax, but after we attacked this government day in day out in this parliament suddenly we saw the backflip on that—although I do not think we have seen the last of that; I think there will be a GP tax at some point.

We have seen the government having to be bludgeoned into backflipping on some of its more harsh budget measures. For example, where is the budget measure not to have young people under 30 eligible for payment for six months? Presumably, that is still in a drawer somewhere. Will that try to come out, sneakily? And there is this whole absolute dishonesty around cuts to pensions. If you change the way that pensions are calculated in a way that reduces the pensioners' entitlement then that is a cut. If you are used to getting $200 into your bank account and suddenly you start to get $180, that is a cut. And yet, day after day, we see the Abbott government trying to put a spin on it, trying to say to Australian pensioners, 'No, we are not cutting your pension.' They know better.

And what about the dishonesty about superannuation in this country, where the employer contribution has been frozen? That is a cut too from a government who try to pretend they are responsible. They are not. All we have seen from the Abbott government is that they cannot manage anything. They cannot manage their frontbench, they cannot manage their Prime Minister and they cannot manage their Treasurer. Hiding them away means that they are still there. (Time expired)

Question agreed to.